Video Games-An artistic presentation
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Jet Grind Radio, an arsty looking game that has you spray art on the side of buildings.
Jet Grind Radio, an arsty looking game that has you spray art on the side of buildings.
SupaKoopaTroopa
Okami is the artwork game i think (In characters and environtment)
eh-ut
I think your confusing art direction and style with games that can be defined as art.
As far as things go for the OP, I can't think of a valid non-gaming based article(As in an article promoted by a journalist outside of gaming journalists) that claims of any games that could be considered as art (though I may be proved wrong on that), which would be a good sign of any game being recognized as art.
Within gaming circles there are a few articles, with an almost unanimous opinion of Ico and Shadow of the Colossus being considered as art.
Mirror's Edge - It is pretty artistic, in fact it is one of my favourite games. Also artistic-wise
Machinarium - The art is wonderful
Killer7 - Abstraaaact!
Firstly, "Are video games art?" is a nonsense question, if you can't define art -- and by art, I mean the definition of art that supposedly implies prestige. Everybody has their own personal definition, but personal definitions aren't how languages work (otherwise, we wouldn't be able to communicate complex ideas with each other).
Secondly, why are the video games people put forth as proof that video games are "art", "art"? I'm talking about the usual suspects: Ico, Shadow of the Colossus, Rez, Suda51 games, etc.
Firstly, "Are video games art?" is a nonsense question, if you can't define art -- and by art, I mean the definition of art that supposedly implies prestige. Everybody has their own personal definition, but personal definitions aren't how languages work (otherwise, we wouldn't be able to communicate complex ideas with each other).
Secondly, why are the video games people put forth as proof that video games are "art", "art"? I'm talking about the usual suspects: Ico, Shadow of the Colossus, Rez, Suda51 games, etc.
well theres really no arguing with the "medium/work x is art because i say it is" approach.well theres really no arguing with the "medium/work x is art because i say it is" approach. LoG-Sacrament
Theoretically, using that approach, the word "art" can be applied to anything and everything. A word that can be used to describe anything and everything means nothing. The word "art" becomes redundant.
[QUOTE="LoG-Sacrament"]well theres really no arguing with the "medium/work x is art because i say it is" approach. RiskAverseStock
Theoretically, using that approach, the word "art" can be applied to anything and everything. A word that can be used to describe anything and everything means nothing. The word "art" becomes redundant.
its can just as easily be used to apply to nothing at all. its precisely why prestige cannot be the deciding factor for calling something art.its can just as easily be used to apply to nothing at all. its precisely why prestige cannot be the deciding factor for calling something art.LoG-SacramentYou're right. The only reason I included "prestige" is because people are so eager to have video games considered art, that there's obviously something about the word "art" and its definition that elevates video games in some way -- makes video games a more prestigious affair. Of course, there are other definitions of art:
1.) There's the definition of art which is synonymous for a craft (such as the Art of War),
2.) There's the definition of art which is synonymous for a visual medium (painting, sketching, etc.),
3.) There's the sardonic definition of art (which implies a prestigious definition of art -- "you're a real work of art" -- but in this case the existence of a commonly-accepted definition that implies prestige is not necessary because the intent is obvious),
and
4.) There's the implied definition of art which denotes something of high quality (people apply the term "art" to things they like, unless they wish to invalidate the term itself (such as Clive Barker claiming that everything and anything, including bowel movements, can be art) -- though the idea that one can like every piece of music, every painting, or every video game is preposterous, so it is accurately applied to individual works instead of the entire thing to which that individual work belongs -- Beethoven's 9th Symphony is a work of art, but I can't say I'd use the same word to describe any of Wagner's symphonies, etc.).
Utilizing the last definition, individual games -- great games -- can be considered "art", but not video games as a whole.
You're right. The only reason I included "prestige" is because people are so eager to have video games considered art, that there's obviously something about the word "art" and its definition that elevates video games in some way -- makes video games a more prestigious affair. Of course, there are other definitions of art:[QUOTE="LoG-Sacrament"] its can just as easily be used to apply to nothing at all. its precisely why prestige cannot be the deciding factor for calling something art.RiskAverseStock
1.) There's the definition of art which is synonymous for a craft (such as the Art of War),
2.) There's the definition of art which is synonymous for a visual medium (painting, sketching, etc.),
3.) There's the sardonic definition of art (which implies a prestigious definition of art -- "you're a real work of art" -- but in this case the existence of a commonly-accepted definition that implies prestige is not necessary because the intent is obvious),
and
4.) There's the implied definition of art which denotes something of high quality (people apply the term "art" to things they like, unless they wish to invalidate the term itself (such as Clive Barker claiming that everything and anything, including bowel movements, can be art) -- though the idea that one can like every piece of music, every painting, or every video game is preposterous, so it is accurately applied to individual works instead of the entire thing to which that individual work belongs -- Beethoven's 9th Symphony is a work of art, but I can't say I'd use the same word to describe any of Wagner's symphonies, etc.).
Utilizing the last definition, individual games -- great games -- can be considered "art", but not video games as a whole.
Thats because Wagner wasn't famous for his symphonies (though he did write some)it was his operas that he was famous for.
Thats because Wagner wasn't famous for his symphonies (though he did write some)it was his operas that he was famous for.I actually like Wagner, but at the time of the post I had just listened to a Wagner's Faust Overture followed by Beethoven's 9th Symphony, so I just used those two composers because they were at the top of my head (and symphonies because I was listening to a symphony at the time). But all of that is beside the point, because it was just an example used to illustrate the application of the fourth definition of the word "art".brittoss
You're right. The only reason I included "prestige" is because people are so eager to have video games considered art, that there's obviously something about the word "art" and its definition that elevates video games in some way -- makes video games a more prestigious affair. Of course, there are other definitions of art:[QUOTE="LoG-Sacrament"] its can just as easily be used to apply to nothing at all. its precisely why prestige cannot be the deciding factor for calling something art.RiskAverseStock
1.) There's the definition of art which is synonymous for a craft (such as the Art of War),
2.) There's the definition of art which is synonymous for a visual medium (painting, sketching, etc.),
3.) There's the sardonic definition of art (which implies a prestigious definition of art -- "you're a real work of art" -- but in this case the existence of a commonly-accepted definition that implies prestige is not necessary because the intent is obvious),
and
4.) There's the implied definition of art which denotes something of high quality (people apply the term "art" to things they like, unless they wish to invalidate the term itself (such as Clive Barker claiming that everything and anything, including bowel movements, can be art) -- though the idea that one can like every piece of music, every painting, or every video game is preposterous, so it is accurately applied to individual works instead of the entire thing to which that individual work belongs -- Beethoven's 9th Symphony is a work of art, but I can't say I'd use the same word to describe any of Wagner's symphonies, etc.).
Utilizing the last definition, individual games -- great games -- can be considered "art", but not video games as a whole.
well there are many accepted definitions of art. merriam webster lists "the conscious use of skill and creative imagination especially in the production of aesthetic objects; also : works so produced." that one really opens the door for more than a select few greats. even so called realistic games offer their interpretations of reality with their own degree of "skill and creative imagination" such as war games with their drab color palettes and rousing scores to romantisize the player's actions. just because theres a stunted list of games on par with beethoven's 9th doesnt mean that only a select few greats are art.well there are many accepted definitions of art. merriam webster lists "the conscious use of skill and creative imagination especially in the production of aesthetic objects; also : works so produced." that one really opens the door for more than a select few greats. even so called realistic games offer their interpretations of reality with their own degree of "skill and creative imagination" such as war games with their drab color palettes and rousing scores to romantisize the player's actions. just because theres a stunted list of games on par with beethoven's 9th doesnt mean that only a select few greats are art. LoG-SacramentI think you've misunderstood what I've said. Beethoven's 9th was just an example of something that is considered a piece of "art" -- art meaning something of great quality, in this case. I consider very many video games to be "art" -- as in, the best of the best of the best video games -- such as Half-Life or Street Fighter II.
According to Merriam-Webster's definition, anything created consciously by an intelligent (relatively speaking) being is considered art -- by all means, every time you procreate you are trying to create a work of art. This isn't making the word "art" totally redundant, but I can't think of any instances where a different, more precise word wouldn't provide a better alternative, if Merriam-Webster's definition is believed to be accurate.
The first three definitions I listed were, if not universally-accepted definitions, at least self-evident enough (by way of daily usage) that we can just take them for granted and move on. The method by which I came up with the fourth definition was by taking a look at the intention of the daily usage of the word "art" in the context of prestige. When you call something "art", you either like it, or you similarly think everything should be art (there are alternatives, but they're basically similar to the former or the latter). In the first case -- in which everything you think of as high quality is art -- defending something like "films" or "video games" as a whole as art is absurd because there's no way you could like (or have even seen/played) every single film or video game in existence. In this case, it's logical to justify individual works you like as "art" -- Citizen Kane or Half-Life or anything else -- and similarly deride individual works you dislike as "not art". The logical conclusion of this, then, is to say that, when the word "art" is applied in daily usage and is not in reference to the first three definitions, then it means "art" in question is something of great, great quality. In the second case -- in which everything should be considered "art" -- you are merely making the word "art" redundant.
The issue with taking the definitions that vary from dictionary to dictionary is that the dictionaries are merely acting as proxies for individuals. Nothing is accomplished that way, and things are only made muddier.
I think you've misunderstood what I've said. Beethoven's 9th was just an example of something that is considered a piece of "art" -- art meaning something of great quality, in this case. I consider very many video games to be "art" -- as in, the best of the best of the best video games -- such as Half-Life or Street Fighter II.[QUOTE="LoG-Sacrament"]well there are many accepted definitions of art. merriam webster lists "the conscious use of skill and creative imagination especially in the production of aesthetic objects; also : works so produced." that one really opens the door for more than a select few greats. even so called realistic games offer their interpretations of reality with their own degree of "skill and creative imagination" such as war games with their drab color palettes and rousing scores to romantisize the player's actions. just because theres a stunted list of games on par with beethoven's 9th doesnt mean that only a select few greats are art. RiskAverseStock
According to Merriam-Webster's definition, anything created consciously by an intelligent (relatively speaking) being is considered art -- by all means, every time you procreate you are trying to create a work of art. This isn't making the word "art" totally redundant, but I can't think of any instances where a different, more precise word wouldn't provide a better alternative, if Merriam-Webster's definition is believed to be accurate.
The first three definitions I listed were, if not universally-accepted definitions, at least self-evident enough (by way of daily usage) that we can just take them for granted and move on. The method by which I came up with the fourth definition was by taking a look at the intention of the daily usage of the word "art" in the context of prestige. When you call something "art", you either like it, or you similarly think everything should be art (there are alternatives, but they're basically similar to the former or the latter). In the first case -- in which everything you think of as high quality is art -- defending something like "films" or "video games" as a whole as art is absurd because there's no way you could like (or have even seen/played) every single film or video game in existence. In this case, it's logical to justify individual works you like as "art" -- Citizen Kane or Half-Life or anything else -- and similarly deride individual works you dislike as "not art". The logical conclusion of this, then, is to say that, when the word "art" is applied in daily usage and is not in reference to the first three definitions, then it means "art" in question is something of great, great quality. In the second case -- in which everything should be considered "art" -- you are merely making the word "art" redundant.
The issue with taking the definitions that vary from dictionary to dictionary is that the dictionaries are merely acting as proxies for individuals. Nothing is accomplished that way, and things are only made muddier.
actually, id say that the MW definition is a little selective, but still more open than arbitrarily applying the prestige one person gives it to determine the status of art. i dont have to play every game to understand the basic principles of videogames. the developer intentionally creates something by their own imagination and skill that the player experiences. there may be some wiggle room in how one player experiences a game, but the experience is one intended by the developer even if that developer is not as skilled as a team ico or retro studios. so while i still may not hold a game like call of duty in high prestige, i could still say it is art while holding steady that clive barker's morning bowel movement is not art.From what the OP defined as "art games", I'd take it to refer to games I've played in the past where I felt like my participation in the game was a subtle form of manipulation that the developer played on me to be part of a bigger experience or message that he or she was trying to express. Other games where this comes to mind is Braid (in a HUGE way), and to lesser degrees, Heavy Rain, and perhaps even the (Spoilers!) boss fight against The Sorrow in Metal Gear Solid 3.
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