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#201  Edited By Robertos
Member since 2023 • 1017 Posts
@sargentd said:

Interesting interview. Long but interesting, over 2 hours.

No matter anyones views I think you have to appreciate the open dialouge.

I don't appreciate the propaganda and softball interviews, nor Tucker pretending to be a journalist when he's not. Both men are confirmed to be big time liars. It's kind of silly to take this seriously.

@sargentd said:

we deserve to be able to hear it to get the full picture. Our Media actually has a responsibility to do it.

The issue is Putin lies so much. As does Tucker. Hell, he cost Fox 800 million didn't he?

  • Vladimir Putin’s controversial Tucker Carlson interview fact-checked | Euronews
  • Tucker Carlson wrong about Western media ignoring Putin | Fact check (usatoday.com)
  • Fact Check: Putin Defends Hitler's Invasion of Poland in Carlson Interview (newsweek.com)
  • Analysis: After Tucker Carlson’s softball interview, Putin walks away with propaganda victory | CNN Business

I find it odd the far right is siding with Putin, when he's the one who started the illegal war.

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uninspiredcup

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#202 uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 59121 Posts

Why MAGA Loves Russia and Hates Ukraine

As I type this newsletter, continued American aid for Ukraine is in grave doubt. Tucker Carlson is in Moscow to conduct a friendly interview with Vladimir Putin. And we’re receiving reports from the front lines that Russia is advancing, in part because of Ukrainian ammunition shortages. In short, the war is reaching a critical stage, and Ukraine may lose because Republicans are willing to hand authoritarian Russia a historic military victory rather than supply further aid to a democratic ally.

Ronald Reagan isn’t just rolling over in his grave; he may also lurch from it in a fit of incredulous rage. This is a remarkable and potentially catastrophic reversal by a political party that is in a state of near-total, frequently random ideological transformation.

To explain the intensity of Republican resistance to Ukraine aid, I need to return to a concept I wrote about in November: that of bespoke realities. My friend Renée DiResta, the technical research manager at the Stanford Internet Observatory, coined the term, and she wrote that it refers to the “bubble realities” constructed by communities “that operate with their own norms, media, trusted authorities and frameworks of facts.”

Among those who oppose aid to Ukraine, there are certainly several paleoconservatives who object on classic isolationist grounds: It’s not our fight, our support is costly, we might find ourselves inadvertently embroiled in war, and so on. But the mass Republican movement against Ukraine is rooted far less in policy than it is in a particular bespoke reality of the MAGA universe, in which Ukraine is a pernicious villain, Putin is a flawed hero and Russia should have crushed Ukraine long ago.

^ @sargentd

MAGA Republicans’ hatred and contempt for Volodymyr Zelensky and the Ukrainian cause is shockingly vehement. Candace Owens says she wants to “punch” Zelensky. Donald Trump Jr. calls him an “international welfare queen.” Carlson says he dresses “like the manager of a strip club.” It’s all bizarre and unreasonable. And it all fits the broader MAGA narrative.

Let’s break it down, step by step. First, if you’re stumped by the notion that Ukraine is a villain, you may need reminding of a conspiracy theory that is now largely forgotten but was prevalent on the right at the time of Donald Trump’s first impeachment. In his infamous conversation with Zelensky — the one that triggered the impeachment — Trump asked Zelensky about a “CrowdStrike” server allegedly being held in Ukraine.

This is a reference to a longstanding MAGA claim that it was Ukraine and not Russia that interfered with the 2016 election. There’s no evidence of any kind to support the allegation, and Trump’s own advisers repeatedly debunked it. But my Times colleague Scott Shane described how the theory gained purchase on the right nonetheless. “On 4chan and pro-Trump spaces on Reddit, on websites like ZeroHedge.com and Washington’s Blog,” he wrote in 2019, “you can find plenty of speculation about evil manipulation by CrowdStrike and secret maneuvers by Ukrainians — often inflamed by Mr. Trump’s own statements.”

Combine that claim with the fact that Hunter Biden had a lucrative business relationship with the Ukrainian energy company Burisma, and MAGA found itself with the perfect villain to counter the Trump-Russia narrative. Trump wasn’t in bed with a hostile power in Russia; the Democrats were in bed with a hostile power in Ukraine.

But it goes further still. To MAGA, Putin isn’t just innocent; he’s admirable. Heroic, even, in some ways. He isn’t defined as an authoritarian dictator at the helm of one of America’s chief geopolitical rivals. No, he’s defined as an anti-woke leader who defends Christian civilization by taking on the decadent West.

In a 2017 speech at Hillsdale College, the Claremont Institute’s Christopher Caldwell declared that if “we were to use traditional measures for understanding leaders, which involve the defense of borders and national flourishing, Putin would count as the pre-eminent statesman of our time.” In Caldwell’s words, Putin “is not the president of a feminist NGO. He is not a transgender-rights activist. He is not an ombudsman appointed by the United Nations to make and deliver slide shows about green energy.”

In 2021, The American Conservative’s Rod Dreher praised a Putin speech condemning the West and said that Putin and Hungary’s Viktor Orban were “completely clear and completely correct on the society-destroying nature of wokeness and postliberal leftism.” (It should be noted that Dreher has nonetheless unequivocally condemned Putin’s invasion.) A 2022 exchange between Steve Bannon and Erik Prince, the founder of private military contractor Blackwater, was even more illustrative. Bannon hosted Prince on his podcast shortly after Putin’s invasion and proclaimed Putin “anti-woke.” Prince replied supportively that the people of Russia “still know which bathroom to use.” And Bannon kept the thought alive, asking, “How many genders are there in Russia?”

Jordan Peterson, meanwhile, went so far as to imply that Russia’s aggressive attack may have been merely self-defense against the threat of Western cultural decadence. The culture war, he mused, may be “serious enough to increase the probability that Russia, say, will be motivated to invade and potentially incapacitate Ukraine merely to keep the pathological West out of that country, which is a key part of the historically Russian sphere of influence.”

There is an old saying: The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Ideally, the phrase means that Americans set aside their domestic differences to address foreign threats to the nation. But in this hyperpolarized era, the far right gets this equation precisely backward. They are aiding Vladimir Putin because they see him, too, as opposed to their domestic enemies.

Before the war, MAGA’s combination of hostility toward Ukraine and admiration of Putin created a very particular narrative: Rugged, manly, traditional Russia was physically and spiritually stronger than the liberalizing West, and it would roll over Ukraine with only token resistance. Indeed, before the war, Ted Cruz shared a tweet in which he contrasted Russian and American military ads. The U.S. ad, he claimed, showed our military to be “woke” and “emasculated.” But the Russian ad reeked of masculine aggression. How could the West — let alone tiny Ukraine — stand against such manly men?

Then the war started, and Ukraine and its allies in the allegedly weak, woke West proved astonishingly resilient. The tough, masculine Russian military was stopped cold outside Kyiv and has suffered humiliating, catastrophic losses. In other words, nothing has gone according to Russian plans — or MAGA expectations.

I do not want to imply that all Republican opposition to Ukraine aid is rooted in this MAGA bespoke reality. As I said, there are thoughtful people who disagree with additional aid on fiscal or strategic grounds. I disagree with them, but I respect their views. But the MAGA infotainment right isn’t engaged in thoughtful analysis. It’s turning its angry domestic grievances into foreign policy.

America made profound and catastrophic foreign policy mistakes in the past. But never in my lifetime have we been on the verge of a mistake so profound and catastrophic that was the direct result of theories and ideas that were so shallow, stupid and, frankly, bizarre.

There are still millions of Republicans who want to support Ukraine. But if the past eight years have taught us anything, it’s that in any clash between traditional Republicans and MAGA, traditional Republicans typically surrender. And so it is here. At the beginning of the war, only 9 percent of Republicans believed the United States was supplying too much aid to Ukraine. Now that number is a plurality of 48 percent. MAGA is once again dragging the G.O.P. into its bespoke reality, and the consequences could be catastrophic for Ukraine, Europe and the future of American security.

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SargentD

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#203 SargentD
Member since 2020 • 8316 Posts

@uninspiredcup: what a hyperbolic headline

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#204 uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 59121 Posts

A factually correct one.

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SargentD

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#205 SargentD
Member since 2020 • 8316 Posts

@uninspiredcup: atleast it's upfront so I don't have to waste my time reading it

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#206 uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 59121 Posts

Just read the bold part, that's you.

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#207 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178858 Posts

@sargentd said:

@uninspiredcup: atleast it's upfront so I don't have to waste my time reading it

LOL I already believe you don't read what isn't presented to you from a specific faction.

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#208 VatususReturns  Online
Member since 2021 • 950 Posts

@sargentd: yet he posted two actual links with verified sources. You posted a republican propagandist video known for propelling fake news. He wins

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#209 SargentD
Member since 2020 • 8316 Posts

@vatususreturns said:

@sargentd: yet he posted two actual links with verified sources. You posted a republican propagandist video known for propelling fake news. He wins

Wins? What game?

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#210 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 58417 Posts

@LJS9502_basic said:
@sargentd said:

@uninspiredcup: atleast it's upfront so I don't have to waste my time reading it

LOL I already believe you don't read what isn't presented to you from a specific faction.

He doesn't read, he watches Youtube propaganda.

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#211  Edited By Robertos
Member since 2023 • 1017 Posts
@sargentd said:
@vatususreturns said:

@sargentd: yet he posted two actual links with verified sources. You posted a republican propagandist video known for propelling fake news. He wins

Wins? What game?

Wins at propaganda and fake news.

  • Vladimir Putin’s controversial Tucker Carlson interview fact-checked | Euronews
  • Tucker Carlson wrong about Western media ignoring Putin | Fact check (usatoday.com)
  • Fact Check: Putin Defends Hitler's Invasion of Poland in Carlson Interview (newsweek.com)
  • Analysis: After Tucker Carlson’s softball interview, Putin walks away with propaganda victory | CNN Business
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#212 SargentD
Member since 2020 • 8316 Posts

@uninspiredcup: @mrbojangles25: @robertos: @LJS9502_basic:

How does this war end guys?

How is it going to end?

Any predictions?

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#213 Robertos
Member since 2023 • 1017 Posts

@sargentd said:

@uninspiredcup: @mrbojangles25: @robertos: @LJS9502_basic:

How does this war end guys?

How is it going to end?

Any predictions?

No clue, but It would be nice if Putin stopped his illegal invasion.

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#214 SargentD
Member since 2020 • 8316 Posts

@robertos: like what do you think is going to happen, it can't just perpetually go on for 50 years or some shit.. how's it come to an end

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#215 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 58417 Posts

@sargentd said:

@robertos: like what do you think is going to happen, it can't just perpetually go on for 50 years or some shit.. how's it come to an end

You could easily argue this is the last gasp of a Cold War relic, rattling his saber in one last attempt at greatness.

In that context, we just have to outlast Putin. And we do that by supporting Ukraine and our allies. The US (and our allies) have SO MUCH arms and ammunition, all we have to do is send them our surplus. It's not even money we need to send them, just bullets. Share intelligence.

The world is as small today as it has ever been, and is only getting smaller. We gain more through cooperation, not competition. A rising tide lifts all ships. Powers and leaders that step out of line--like, for example, illegally invading countries for false reasons--need to get bitch-slapped.

I felt this way when the US invaded Iraq and Afghanistan after finding out it was all a lie and a con, and I feel this way about Russia now.

How anyone can think we should just mind our own business and let Russia steamroll over Ukraine is baffling.

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#216 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 58417 Posts
@robertos said:
@sargentd said:
@vatususreturns said:

@sargentd: yet he posted two actual links with verified sources. You posted a republican propagandist video known for propelling fake news. He wins

Wins? What game?

Wins at propaganda and fake news.

  • Vladimir Putin’s controversial Tucker Carlson interview fact-checked | Euronews
  • Tucker Carlson wrong about Western media ignoring Putin | Fact check (usatoday.com)
  • Fact Check: Putin Defends Hitler's Invasion of Poland in Carlson Interview (newsweek.com)
  • Analysis: After Tucker Carlson’s softball interview, Putin walks away with propaganda victory | CNN Business

The "defends Hitler" is really funny because Putin invaded Ukraine to "stop Nazis".

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#217  Edited By uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 59121 Posts
@sargentd said:

@uninspiredcup: @mrbojangles25: @robertos: @LJS9502_basic:

How does this war end guys?

How is it going to end?

Any predictions?

Believe asked, and answered two weeks ago. Same general answer before, don't know. It's a bad idea to make definitive overall presumptions.

Practically all wars end in either total victory or negotiations. It seems (for now at least) highly improbable either side will achieve complete victory.

However want to make a note, your idea of negotiations and mine are two completely different things. Yours (as in right-wingers) is and always equates to some angle of "let Russia win", just varied equivocations of this typically fed down the bread line from propagandists.

Russia' entire foundation and basis for negotiations are fraudulent by default with a further point on top of that, they cannot be trusted.

Russia are the aggressors, they have committed countless war crimes, including, but not limited to murder, mass-rape, looting, mass child kidnapping, torture, torture/murder POW, deliberately targeting civilians wither it be shelling, millions drones or stuff like Bucha where foot soldiers wipe out every civilian they can. And so on.

This is something Russia will deny to the hilt. And refuse to take responsibility for.

They will also refuse to give up any territory unless some event happens.

Essentially Russia' negations will be some bullshit "we didn't do anything wrong" and "Just give us what we can take". A farce. Which Trump will in all likelihood, happily go along with.

Another aspect as well, Ukriane have been battered and abused for 2 years. All the heinous shit Russia can throw at them.

Whatever happens, they will not suddenly stop.

A good example of this was probably the first days of the war. A 40 mile line of tanks about to decimate them, knowing they had no chance with civilians making home made Molotov. These people knew they were going to die and purposefully chose to be fatalistic rather than being under Russia.

It's had the exact opposite intention, by attempting to make Ukriane a vassal, it has paradoxically strengthen it, leading to increased patriotism and solidarity among the people, alongside making it an obscure country to one everyone in the world knows now.

So basically, even if Russia took Ukraine, and occupied parts, which they have done, they will not be having a good time. Nor will the people there. Akin to something Afghanistan, a never ending loop of internal violence.

That's why Bucha happened, the soldiers didn't expect such a hostile reception, half of them were poorly trained, lack discipline and straight up wasted on alcohol, to them, everyone they came across was the enemy. So they massacred them. Reports of this in other regions as well, as well as stuff we simply don't know about, mass graves waiting to be found.

And what you find in practically, any war ever. When the victor has full control of the enemy, and the enemy is deemed sub-human or lesser, very, very, very bad things happen. Stuff that make us look worse than animals. Russia has already been doing this, but if completely subjugated it will be the tip of the ice-berg.

-

So bypassing all this ramble, the problem is Russia from the start, and now. In order to get their negations, you have to let them win, an accept alternate reality. Where, horrible shit will happen, and they cannot be trusted to begin with.

And Ukraine is in a bad position atm. Thanks partly due to growing apathy and blocking support.

My own position is pretty simple on the matter, do not let Russia win. Negotiations, if occurred should not be favoring Russia at all, in the slightest. If anything there should be people taken to court and reparations.

And their lies the problem, Russia will never accept this, because Russia does no wrong.

But they know a certain group of people are on their team.

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#218  Edited By Nirgal
Member since 2019 • 697 Posts

@sargentd: knowing the opinion of Putin, was never difficult to being with. And the fact that you learned nothing new from this interview is all you need to know to confirm this.

And I was loosing my shit on you pretending it was a freedom of speech issue.

This guy has always enjoyed freedom of speech and has always curtailed the freedom of speech of others.

At least, I am glad the interview only got 10 million views. The nerds I follow that do archeology podcasts sometimes get 4 Millon, so in comparison his message wasn't magnified that much.

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#219  Edited By Jag85
Member since 2005 • 19617 Posts
@LJS9502_basic said:

The cognitive dissonance from those who spout about freedom but then are in love with an authoritarian dictator that takes freedom away is amazing. Way to go MAGA/trump supporters.

The cognitive dissonance from those who spout about freedom but then aid and abet authoritarian dictatorships and fascist regimes that take away freedom and commit genocide... Way to go Democrat supporters. I don't like Trump or Putin either, but it cracks me up when genocidal Democrat warmongers try to act like they have any moral high ground over the crazy MAGA nuts.

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#220 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178858 Posts

@Jag85 said:
@LJS9502_basic said:

The cognitive dissonance from those who spout about freedom but then are in love with an authoritarian dictator that takes freedom away is amazing. Way to go MAGA/trump supporters.

The cognitive dissonance from those who spout about freedom but then aid and abet authoritarian dictatorships and fascist regimes that take away freedom and commit genocide... Way to go Democrat supporters. I don't like Trump or Putin either, but it cracks me up when genocidal Democrat warmongers try to act like they have any moral high ground over the crazy MAGA nuts.

Ah yes the classic middle school response. Truth must hurt.

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#221  Edited By Jag85
Member since 2005 • 19617 Posts

Yeah, truth hurts. Democrats are hypocrites. They don't practice what they preach.

Loading Video...

At least with MAGA/Republicans, we know what they're about, as they openly brag and boast about their evil intentions. But with Democrats, they sugar coat their evil intentions by preaching morals they don't even practice themselves.

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#222 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178858 Posts

@Jag85: ITT the only people defending an odious leader is the far right. So your whataboutism is foolish and pointless but I guess it's all you have.

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#223  Edited By Jag85
Member since 2005 • 19617 Posts

Not going to derail this thread any further. But it just cracked me up to see a supporter of a fascist regime denying freedom and committing genocide in another thread... talking about cognitive dissonance when it comes to supporters of a murderous authoritarian regime denying freedom in this thread. That's cognitive dissonance right there.

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#224  Edited By SargentD
Member since 2020 • 8316 Posts
@Jag85 said:

Not going to derail this thread any further. But it just cracked me up to see a supporter of a fascist regime denying freedom and committing genocide in another thread... talking about cognitive dissonance when it comes to supporters of a murderous authoritarian regime denying freedom in this thread. That's cognitive dissonance right there.

If wanting America's government to put our money towards helping Americans instead of funding proxy wars in Israel and Ukraine makes me a "CRAZY MAGA NUT".

Then fine.. guess I'm a crazy Maga nut lol

Not sure what these "evil intentions" are your alluding too...

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#225 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 58417 Posts

@Jag85 said:
@LJS9502_basic said:

The cognitive dissonance from those who spout about freedom but then are in love with an authoritarian dictator that takes freedom away is amazing. Way to go MAGA/trump supporters.

The cognitive dissonance from those who spout about freedom but then aid and abet authoritarian dictatorships and fascist regimes that take away freedom and commit genocide... Way to go Democrat supporters. I don't like Trump or Putin either, but it cracks me up when genocidal Democrat warmongers try to act like they have any moral high ground over the crazy MAGA nuts.

I mean, they kind of are better, though. Objectively speaking, and definitely morally. I don't think it's hypocritical or cognitive dissonance to be supportive of a "genocidal warmonger" in one thread while preaching restraint in another; you pick the party that most aligns with your ideals, and rarely get exactly what you want. We call that compromise. If the warmonger checks off 8/10 of your ideals while the alternative checks off none, then go with the warmonger. Your words, though, not mine (not sure what warmongering you are referring to).

I generally try to take an objective stance, and I think I am now, when I say that the MAGA-GOP crowd is far, far, far worse than anything Democrats or traditional conservatives are doing or considering.

I don't owe allegiance to either party, I vote based on policy and who wants to help the country most, so I don't play favorites. It's just the Dems actually seem to want to improve things, while the Reps genuinely seem like they want to destroy things with no plan in place to build something.

I mean I'm not really excited about Democratic leadership at this point and would absolutely LOVE a viable alternative, but I'm still supporting them because the MAGA-GOP is that repelling to me.

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#226  Edited By SargentD
Member since 2020 • 8316 Posts

@nirgal said:

@sargentd: knowing the opinion of Putin, was never difficult to being with. And the fact that you learned nothing new from this interview is all you need to know to confirm this.

And I was loosing my shit on you pretending it was a freedom of speech issue.

This guy has always enjoyed freedom of speech and has always curtailed the freedom of speech of others.

At least, I am glad the interview only got 10 million views. The nerds I follow that do archeology podcasts sometimes get 4 Millon, so in comparison his message wasn't magnified that much.

It is a free speech issue if your willfully supporting not allowing such an interview or actively trying to label such interview as treason... our constitution allows such an interview anyone trying to shut it down is against free speech full stop.

And 10 million views? The X post alone is showing over 179 million....

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#227 Jag85
Member since 2005 • 19617 Posts

@mrbojangles25:

I made the following observation in another thread:

@Jag85 said:

Actions speak louder than words. While Trump was threatening to bomb the Middle East... Biden and Obama have mass-murdered far more people in the Middle East than Trump ever did. While Trump was threatening to deport all Mexican immigrants... Obama deported more Mexicans than Trump did. What Malcolm X said about Democrats in the 1960s still holds true today. They're hypocrites who don't practice what they preach.

To add, Trump was pro-Putin and Biden was anti-Putin, yet it was ironically under Biden's reign that Putin was able to launch a full-scale invasion of Ukraine. Trump also opposed Roe v Wade and Biden supported it, yet it was ironically under Biden's reign that it was overturned. Funny how, whatever Trump, Biden and Obama promised, the opposite ended up happening under their reigns.

As far as I'm concerned, Democrats and Republicans are both terrible. But I'm not American, so it doesn't matter what I think. That's up to American voters to decide. However, polls so far are not looking good for Democrats, due to how many former supporters are turning their backs on the party.

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#228  Edited By uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 59121 Posts

@sargentd: I don't think the view count actually means much, problem lies in the propaganda itself, it was a dud. For both ends.

Also, mean, this is like the third time saying it now, and you ignore it the last three times, actual journalists, requested multiple interviews. He was hand picked, because he's a useful idiot.

It was a proxy interview designed to attack Biden, promote Trump and symbiotically promote Russia, in both regards it has failed.

Don't take this as just me saying it, or Western media, Russian telegram channels themselves are saying this. Along with actual Russian born propagandists like Margarita Simonyan (head of RT and queen of disinformation) attempting to distance herself from it.

https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1756141610255958378

-

That's the interesting thing about it.

Some very obvious reasons along with stuff more clever people will pick up than dunces like us.

1. Putin going into a 30 minute historical ramble, MAGA are use to simplistic emotional appeals and simple data to consume (as in they are very stupid people)

2. Putin actively disliked Tucker and treated him like a house fly.

3. Putin himself does not emote like Trump where he can do a cheap cars sale man, very cold and methodical in nature.

4. It was basically Putin monologuing while Tucker sat their with a look on his face like someone stuck a thumb up his ass with awkward fake giggles.

5. This idea MAGAS have of "shared identity" with Christian values was instantly shot down. He attempted 1-2 very obvious appeases that would have been prompted to him before hand to manipulate, but it came across as very disconnected.

In reality, a long standing problem Putin has is Volodymyr Zelenskyy is far superior at this. He actually comes across as human, this is undoubtedly partly due to his history prior to politics, but he is simply better at it.

Overall what you're doing here is akin to boasting about Michael Bay's Tranformers 4: Dark Side Of The Moon, a lot of people saw it, but it wasn't very good.

Been watching social media and seeing you're lot desperately try to spin it but even they are having a difficult time.

lt seems (from what I can tell at least not big on American politics) gift you were given was Joe Biden seemingly unfit due to the reality of age, and at the worst possible time.

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#229 Jag85
Member since 2005 • 19617 Posts
@sargentd said:
@Jag85 said:

Not going to derail this thread any further. But it just cracked me up to see a supporter of a fascist regime denying freedom and committing genocide in another thread... talking about cognitive dissonance when it comes to supporters of a murderous authoritarian regime denying freedom in this thread. That's cognitive dissonance right there.

If wanting America's government to put our money towards helping Americans instead of funding proxy wars in Israel and Ukraine makes me a "CRAZY MAGA NUT".

Then fine.. guess I'm a crazy Maga nut lol

Not sure what these "evil intentions" are your alluding too...

"America First" seems to be the position held by some Trump-supporting Republicans like Tucker Carlson and Vivek Ramaswamy. However, that's not the position Trump himself holds. He's made it very clear that he's very pro-Israel. So he won't be "America First" like many of his MAGA fans believe, but he will be "Israel First" like nearly all other US political leaders.

The only difference I see happening under Trump's reign is that he will cut off all arms and funds to Ukraine because he's pro-Putin... However, those Ukraine funds won't end up back in America, but will instead just be redirected to Israel. In other words, being all America First while supporting Trump at the same time is a huge contradiction. That's where the MAGA crowd suffer from cognitive dissonance, just like the Democrats who suffer from their own cognitive dissonance.

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#230 SargentD
Member since 2020 • 8316 Posts

@uninspiredcup said:

@sargentd: I don't think the view count actually means much as prior to this, The problem lies in the propaganda itself, it was a dud. For both ends.

Also, mean, this is like the third time saying it now, and you ignore it the last three times, actual journalists, requested multiple interviews. He was hand picked, because he's a useful idiot.

It was a proxy interview designed to attack Biden, promote Trump and symbiotically promote Russia, in both regards it has failed.

Don't take this as just me saying it, or Western media, Russian telegram channels themselves are saying this. Along with actual Russian born propagandists like Margarita Simonyan (head of RT and queen of disinformation) attempting to distance herself from it.

https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1756141610255958378

-

That's the interesting thing about it.

On both ends, you've failed. Some very obvious reasons along with stuff more clever people will pick up than dunces like us.

1. Putin going into a 30 minute historical ramble, MAGA are use to simplistic emotional appeals and simple data to consume (as in they are very stupid people)

2. Putin actively disliked Tucker and treated him like a house fly.

3. Putin himself does not emote like Trump where he can do a cheap cars sale man, very cold and methodical in nature.

4. It was basically Putin monologuing while Tucker sat their with a look on his face like someone stuck a thumb up his ass with awkward fake giggles.

5. This idea MAGAS have of "shared identity" with Christian values was instantly shot down. He attempted 1-2 very obvious appeases that would have been prompted to him before hand to manipulate, but it came across as very disconnected.

In reality, a long standing problem Putin has is Volodymyr Zelenskyy is far superior at this. He actually comes across as human, this is undoubtedly partly due to his history prior to politics, but he is simply better at it.

Overall what you're doing here is akin to boasting about Michael Bay's Tranformers 4: Dark Side Of The Moon, a lot of people saw it, but it wasn't very good.

Been watching social media and seeing you're lot desperately try to spin it but even they are having a difficult time.

lt seems (from what I can tell at least not big on American politics) gift you were given was Joe Biden seemingly unfit due to the reality of age, and at the worst possible time.

Don't have time to get into all of this being said, but key points bolded. Just sound like nonsense leftist conjecture.

You can assume this was the point of the interview.. ( i have no reason to believe you can think what you want...but there is nothing said by tucker that this was the purpose of the interview.

The part of the interview where Tucker questioned how Putins faith comes into place while hypocritical calling for war and death.. had nothing to do with connecting Maga to putin...

Like where are you getting this stuff from???

Why can't the purpose of interviewing Putin... be interviewing putin!

No, it must all be a "grand plan to promote trump and Russia and attack biden"...

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#231  Edited By SargentD
Member since 2020 • 8316 Posts
@Jag85 said:
@sargentd said:
@Jag85 said:

Not going to derail this thread any further. But it just cracked me up to see a supporter of a fascist regime denying freedom and committing genocide in another thread... talking about cognitive dissonance when it comes to supporters of a murderous authoritarian regime denying freedom in this thread. That's cognitive dissonance right there.

If wanting America's government to put our money towards helping Americans instead of funding proxy wars in Israel and Ukraine makes me a "CRAZY MAGA NUT".

Then fine.. guess I'm a crazy Maga nut lol

Not sure what these "evil intentions" are your alluding too...

"America First" seems to be the position held by some Trump-supporting Republicans like Tucker Carlson and Vivek Ramaswamy. However, that's not the position Trump himself holds. He's made it very clear that he's very pro-Israel. So he won't be "America First" like many of his MAGA fans believe, but he will be "Israel First" like nearly all other US political leaders.

The only difference I see happening under Trump's reign is that he will cut off all arms and funds to Ukraine because he's pro-Putin... However, those Ukraine funds won't end up back in America, but will instead just be redirected to Israel. In other words, being all America First while supporting Trump at the same time is a huge contradiction. That's where the MAGA crowd suffer from cognitive dissonance, just like the Democrats who suffer from their own cognitive dissonance.

If it was up to me all aid to both Ukraine and Israel would be cut. I'm probably the most pro MAGA person on this dead forum. I don't even care about the GOP.

I do not support more aid to Israel or Ukraine. But on paper Israel is an official ally of the US. Ukraine on the other hand is not even a NATO ally.

Democrats currently are supporting aid to both so are GOP. Maga are the only ones asking for any oversight or stipulations for either conflict.

If you are calling for the opposite of what your bitching about with Trump ( he will cut aid to Ukraine but still fund Israel)

What are you calling for (cut aid to Israel but fund ukraine)??

If that's what your calling for your no better imo

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mrbojangles25

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#232 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 58417 Posts

@Jag85 said:

@mrbojangles25:

I made the following observation in another thread:

@Jag85 said:

Actions speak louder than words. While Trump was threatening to bomb the Middle East... Biden and Obama have mass-murdered far more people in the Middle East than Trump ever did. While Trump was threatening to deport all Mexican immigrants... Obama deported more Mexicans than Trump did. What Malcolm X said about Democrats in the 1960s still holds true today. They're hypocrites who don't practice what they preach.

To add, Trump was pro-Putin and Biden was anti-Putin, yet it was ironically under Biden's reign that Putin was able to launch a full-scale invasion of Ukraine. Trump also opposed Roe v Wade and Biden supported it, yet it was ironically under Biden's reign that it was overturned. Funny how, whatever Trump, Biden and Obama promised, the opposite ended up happening under their reigns.

As far as I'm concerned, Democrats and Republicans are both terrible. But I'm not American, so it doesn't matter what I think. That's up to American voters to decide. However, polls so far are not looking good for Democrats, due to how many former supporters are turning their backs on the party.

That's all well and good for a skin-deep argument, but the president is just one person, and has fairly limited power. Blaming them entirely for what happens during their administration is a bit misguided. Especially when you have an incredibly hostile, uncooperative Congress.

For example:

Loading Video...

They put their party before country. Never forget the GOP's #1 priority. To win at any cost. Even if all they win is a pile of ashes, they will do what they feel they have to, and will never compromise.

This is why we need some serious reform in our entire political system, starting with the removal of much of the money in it. No donors, just politicians representing their constituents.

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#233 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 58417 Posts

@Jag85 said:

@mrbojangles25:

I made the following observation in another thread:

@Jag85 said:

Actions speak louder than words. While Trump was threatening to bomb the Middle East... Biden and Obama have mass-murdered far more people in the Middle East than Trump ever did. While Trump was threatening to deport all Mexican immigrants... Obama deported more Mexicans than Trump did. What Malcolm X said about Democrats in the 1960s still holds true today. They're hypocrites who don't practice what they preach.

...

I don't know, man. The 60's were a different time; party policy and ideals and such have changed numerous times since then. Assuming you mean this?

“The White liberal is the worst enemy to America and the worst enemy to the Black man. Let me first explain what I mean by this White liberal. In America there’s no such thing as Democrats and Republicans anymore. That’s antiquated. In America you have liberals and conservatives. This is what the American political structure boils down to among Whites. The only people who are still living in the past and thinks in terms of “I’m a Democrat” or “I’m a Republican” is the American Negro. He’s the one who runs around bragging about party affiliation and he’s the one who sticks to the Democrat or sticks to the Republican, but White people in America are divided into two groups, liberals and Republicans…or rather, liberals and conservatives. And when you find White people vote in the political picture, they’re not divided in terms of Democrats and Republicans, they’re divided consistently as conservatives and as liberal. The Democrats who are conservative vote with Republicans who are conservative. Democrats who are liberals vote with Republicans who are liberals. You find this in Washington, DC. Now the White liberals aren’t White people who are for independence, who are liberal, who are moral, who are ethical in their thinking, they are just a faction of White people who are jockeying for power the same as the White conservatives are a faction of White people who are jockeying for power. Now they are fighting each other for booty, for power, for prestige and the one who is the football in the game is the Negro. Twenty million Black people in this country are a political football, a political pawn an economic football, an economic pawn, a social football, a social pawn...”

The only thing that really strikes true is the last little bit about being a political pawn, and frankly that applies to a socioeconomic class now, not a racial class (poor working class people instead of just black people, in other words).

Rich black men have more in common with rich white men than they do with poor black men, in other words.

I wouldn't say the "white liberal" is the worst enemy to America and the Black person these days. Quite the contrary.

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#234 uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 59121 Posts

@sargentd said:

No, it must all be a "grand plan to promote trump and Russia and attack biden"...

Correct.

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#235 SargentD
Member since 2020 • 8316 Posts

@uninspiredcup said:
@sargentd said:

No, it must all be a "grand plan to promote trump and Russia and attack biden"...

Correct.

Disagree, my conclusion is he's interviewing Putin to Interview Putin.

Way less conclusions to jump.. but to each thier own.

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#236 Jag85
Member since 2005 • 19617 Posts
@mrbojangles25 said:
@Jag85 said:

@mrbojangles25:

I made the following observation in another thread:

@Jag85 said:

Actions speak louder than words. While Trump was threatening to bomb the Middle East... Biden and Obama have mass-murdered far more people in the Middle East than Trump ever did. While Trump was threatening to deport all Mexican immigrants... Obama deported more Mexicans than Trump did. What Malcolm X said about Democrats in the 1960s still holds true today. They're hypocrites who don't practice what they preach.

...

I don't know, man. The 60's were a different time; party policy and ideals and such have changed numerous times since then. Assuming you mean this?

“The White liberal is the worst enemy to America and the worst enemy to the Black man. Let me first explain what I mean by this White liberal. In America there’s no such thing as Democrats and Republicans anymore. That’s antiquated. In America you have liberals and conservatives. This is what the American political structure boils down to among Whites. The only people who are still living in the past and thinks in terms of “I’m a Democrat” or “I’m a Republican” is the American Negro. He’s the one who runs around bragging about party affiliation and he’s the one who sticks to the Democrat or sticks to the Republican, but White people in America are divided into two groups, liberals and Republicans…or rather, liberals and conservatives. And when you find White people vote in the political picture, they’re not divided in terms of Democrats and Republicans, they’re divided consistently as conservatives and as liberal. The Democrats who are conservative vote with Republicans who are conservative. Democrats who are liberals vote with Republicans who are liberals. You find this in Washington, DC. Now the White liberals aren’t White people who are for independence, who are liberal, who are moral, who are ethical in their thinking, they are just a faction of White people who are jockeying for power the same as the White conservatives are a faction of White people who are jockeying for power. Now they are fighting each other for booty, for power, for prestige and the one who is the football in the game is the Negro. Twenty million Black people in this country are a political football, a political pawn an economic football, an economic pawn, a social football, a social pawn...”

The only thing that really strikes true is the last little bit about being a political pawn, and frankly that applies to a socioeconomic class now, not a racial class (poor working class people instead of just black people, in other words).

Rich black men have more in common with rich white men than they do with poor black men, in other words.

I wouldn't say the "white liberal" is the worst enemy to America and the Black person these days. Quite the contrary.

Specific policies have changed over the generations, but Malcolm's overall point hasn't changed. Democrats and Republicans are both vying for power and will do whatever it takes for power. The moralizing is all just smokes and mirrors to justify the acquisition of power.

Malcolm X was discussing it in the context of 1960s race politics, but the same could be said for exploiting other communities today, whether it's the white working class, black working class, Latinos/Mexicans, Arabs/Muslims, feminists, LGBT, etc. They're all political pawns exploited by both parties in their quest for power.

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#237  Edited By Silentchief
Member since 2021 • 6977 Posts
@mrbojangles25 said:

No, but he might. Especially if the GOP tries to cut off aid in an effort to help out their buddy Putin.

People seem to be under the impression that "_ billion dollars" of aid to Ukraine means we are giving them giant crates of cash and taking away from the American people.

We aren't. We are giving them aid. This means outdated military equipment and other material that we would otherwise mothball. Cannon shells that are getting towards the end of their life. Artillery guns that are due to be replaced shortly. And so on and so forth.

Their buddy Putin? Are you really that delusional?

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#238  Edited By Jag85
Member since 2005 • 19617 Posts
@sargentd said:

If it was up to me all aid to both Ukraine and Israel would be cut. I'm probably the most pro MAGA person on this dead forum. I don't even care about the GOP.

I do not support more aid to Israel or Ukraine. But on paper Israel is an official ally of the US. Ukraine on the other hand is not even a NATO ally.

Democrats currently are supporting aid to both so are GOP. Maga are the only ones asking for any oversight or stipulations for either conflict.

The idea behind "America First" is that all foreign aid should be cut off and all that aid should instead be used for the benefit of the American people. But that's not what Trump is about. After he cuts off all foreign aid to Ukraine, the American people won't see a dime of that money but it will all just be redirected to Israel. That's why both Putin and Netanyahu want Trump in power, because they see him as their useful puppet. However, Putin and Netanyahu dislike each other, so it will be tough for Trump to serve two masters.

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#239  Edited By uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 59121 Posts
@sargentd said:

Disagree, my conclusion is he's interviewing Putin to Interview Putin.

Way less conclusions to jump.. but to each thier own.

Unfortunately the problem with this take is that I have state run TV and Margarita Simonyan to back me up by, "directly saying it"

Loading Video...

https://www.newsweek.com/putin-ally-disappointed-tucker-carlson-didnt-discuss-conservative-values-1868733

"It's a shame Tucker didn't bring up the conversation about conservative values," Simonyan wrote in a post to X, formerly Twitter, following the interview's release. "This is his strong point—and the Chief's first and foremost, of course."

"This is the only thing on which Russia can and should now build an ideology externally," she added. "Just as the [Soviet Union] once built it on the ideas of social equality."

Simonyan went on to suggest that the "darkness in the West is waiting for someone to lead this agenda, waiting for a country that would become a safe haven for people who are not ready to send their children to be raised by LGBT* and other woke religions." Russia's Supreme Court banned the LGBTQ+ movement in November, labeling it as an extremist organization.

"We are such a country," she concluded. "We must trumpet this."

Bonus material.

Loading Video...
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#240  Edited By mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 58417 Posts
@Jag85 said:
@mrbojangles25 said:
@Jag85 said:

@mrbojangles25:

I made the following observation in another thread:

@Jag85 said:

... Malcolm X said about Democrats in the 1960s still holds true today. They're hypocrites who don't practice what they preach.

...

I don't know, man. The 60's were a different time; party policy and ideals and such have changed numerous times since then. Assuming you mean this?

...

...

Specific policies have changed over the generations, but Malcolm's overall point hasn't changed. Democrats and Republicans are both vying for power and will do whatever it takes for power. The moralizing is all just smokes and mirrors to justify the acquisition of power.

Malcolm X was discussing it in the context of 1960s race politics, but the same could be said for exploiting other communities today, whether it's the white working class, black working class, Latinos/Mexicans, Arabs/Muslims, feminists, LGBT, etc. They're all political pawns exploited by both parties in their quest for power.

As long as you don't delude yourself into thinking they're doing it out of the goodness of their hearts (they aren't, we can agree on that) then either side can benefit. Malcolm X was attempting to make an emotional appeal, but all he did was state the obvious and mislead people.

That's why it's important to focus entirely on your ideals and the political policies, and not make emotional decisions when voting.

  • You shouldn't vote for green policies because you think they're ethical; you should vote for them because there's millions of jobs to create from it, we will see huge improvement in our environment, and there's billions (if not trillions) of dollars to make.
  • You shouldn't vote to legalize recreational drugs because you think they'd be a lot of fun, but because there is money to make off their regulation, money to save in stopping the war on drugs, and a lot of public works to fund from their taxation (i.e. drug clinics, healthcare, etc).

The two examples I provided are often viewed as liberal stances but I consider myself a moderate and if you get down to brass tacks, it's really just common sense to legalize a lot of drugs and to embrace green/renewable/sustainable industries.

Ignore the emotional component. Think transactionally when supporting a candidate. Pursue your ideals. It's arguably the one of the few times in life we should be idealistic but unfeeling sociopaths.

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#241 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 58417 Posts

@silentchief said:
@mrbojangles25 said:

No, but he might. Especially if the GOP tries to cut off aid in an effort to help out their buddy Putin.

People seem to be under the impression that "_ billion dollars" of aid to Ukraine means we are giving them giant crates of cash and taking away from the American people.

We aren't. We are giving them aid. This means outdated military equipment and other material that we would otherwise mothball. Cannon shells that are getting towards the end of their life. Artillery guns that are due to be replaced shortly. And so on and so forth.

Their buddy Putin? Are you really that delusional?

You know I was having a nice civil discourse with @Jag85 and here you come in like a jackass, ignoring 95% of what I said and focusing on the first sentence 🤣

Just really a downer is what you are.

Anyway, would love to hear what you have to say about what I said about how we are giving them aid, outdated equipment, and not money if you care to discuss that.

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#242 SargentD
Member since 2020 • 8316 Posts

@uninspiredcup: what is state run TV? Is this Russian media?

So your saying that some guys take on Russia state media... is proof Tucker did the interview to promote trump and Putin and hurt Biden??

Do you just pick and choose the things said on this "state media" as facts and truth??

Like how do you go from calling these people propagandists... and then using it as some sort of evidence... it's insanity

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#243  Edited By uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 59121 Posts
@sargentd said:

@uninspiredcup: what is state run TV? Is this Russian media?

It is pre-recorded with people directed by the Kremlin what to say. Hopefully this clears things up.

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#244  Edited By uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 59121 Posts
@sargentd said:

Do you just pick and choose the things said on this "state media" as facts and truth??

Yes. I'm using verified evidence. It's cheating.

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#245 SargentD
Member since 2020 • 8316 Posts

@uninspiredcup said:
@sargentd said:

@uninspiredcup: what is state run TV? Is this Russian media?

It is pre-recorded with people directed by the Kremlin what to say. Hopefully this clears things up.

My point is this is your "proof" that Tucker did this interview to promote putin and trump and attack Biden......

A talking head on Russian state media...

Why does this guy know anything???? Lol

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#246 uninspiredcup
Member since 2013 • 59121 Posts

Amazing.

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#247  Edited By SargentD
Member since 2020 • 8316 Posts
@uninspiredcup said:

Amazing.

You don't see the irony in you using Russia state media as your source to prove Tuckers personal intentions?? Lol...

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#248 SargentD
Member since 2020 • 8316 Posts
Loading Video...

Great listen 👍

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#249 Vaasman
Member since 2008 • 15581 Posts

@sargentd said:

Great listen 👍

Have you considered signal boosting anything that wasn't done by a fucking political troll for a change? It might be refreshing honestly.

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#250 Ospi
Member since 2006 • 559 Posts

@Vaasman: breaking the safety bubble is a scary thought though. It might lead to knowledge which might lead to a rethink of opinion *shudders*