Great write-up by Cliffy B defending Anita Sarkeesian.

Here is a really great write-up about male gaming culture by your ol' friend Cliffy.

He defends Anita and his points are convincing! 

There are a lot of sad truths in this about how some blokes are behaving. It needs to change.

There is a clown on this board who just made a thread asking if she's an attention wh0re or something. 

I hope those sort of blokes have a good read of this.  

If feminists want a female lead character, then why don't they go out and make their own damn game?

Anita was asking for 6000$ for her campaign. News hit the internet of the campaign, and the Taliban of videogaming responded in droves. Who was thisthiswoman who wanted to analyze women in video games?

It honestly wasn't that simple. Not to defend them, but Anita specifically went out there to bait people to get attention. Not to stay that the board that shall remained unnamed was justified (no they're ****) but Anita wasn't a poor oppressed victim either.

By the time we got around to Gears 3 the female soldiers were kicking butt right alongside the men in outfits that werent drastically different than the mens, and with a restrained depiction of hair and makeup. (I was just tired of seeing stripper looking female game characters after all of those yearsironic, considering how exaggerated the men were.)

whatever you say cliffy.

I think part of it is that people feel threatened. As if their taste and enjoyment of games is being called bad. Which is silly (of course).

You can enjoy something and be critical of it. You can ask for more. You can expect more. And there is no reason why we shouldn't.

Says the guy who made the most bro shooter on the market?

Also I understand what Anita is getting at. But she's way too intense for her own good.

Anita was asking for 6000$ for her campaign. News hit the internet of the campaign, and the Taliban of videogaming responded in droves. Who was thisthiswoman who wanted to analyze women in video games?Lionheart08

It honestly wasn't that simple. Not to defend them, but Anita specifically went out there to bait people to get attention. Not to stay that the board that shall remained unnamed was justified (no they're ****) but Anita wasn't a poor oppressed victim either.

I think part of it is that people feel threatened. As if their taste and enjoyment of games is being called bad. Which is silly (of course).

You can enjoy something and being critical of it. You can ask for more. You can expect more. And there is no reason why we shouldn't.

whiskeystrike

[QUOTE="Lionheart08"]

Anita was asking for 6000$ for her campaign. News hit the internet of the campaign, and the Taliban of videogaming responded in droves. Who was thisthiswoman who wanted to analyze women in video games?biggest_loser

It honestly wasn't that simple. Not to defend them, but Anita specifically went out there to bait people to get attention. Not to stay that the board that shall remained unnamed was justified (no they're ****) but Anita wasn't a poor oppressed victim either.

She posted a video on 4 Chan. Going there for intellectual discussion is like walking across the interstate blindfolded and wondering why you got hit by a car.

I'm in no way trying to victim blame, but it's no a coincidence that after the trolls attacked her her kickstarter donations went through the roof.

"(Im also not the best person to post about misogyny on the internet as Ill be the first one to post a sexy picture of my wife or give young boys tips on how to flirt with girls.)" U w0t Cliffy? that's not misogyny.

Anyway

I won't knock her for her video's topic bcuz I don't care that someone wants to talk about misogony in vidya. Especially since the videos will fade into irrelevance after awhile.

I'll knock her for her video being sh*t-tier. Defend her from the trolls or w/e, that vid was p. bad any way you looked at it.

I think part of it is that people feel threatened. As if their taste and enjoyment of games is being called bad. Which is silly (of course).

You can enjoy something and being critical of it. You can ask for more. You can expect more. And there is no reason why we shouldn't.

whiskeystrike

This. Exactly this.

The minute she said developers use the trope to fulfill male power fantasies is also the minute any argument she had lost credibility and her agenda displayed its ugly head.

The minute she said developers use the trope to fulfill male power fantasies is also the minute any argument she had lost credibility and hear agenda displayed its ugly head.

GD1551

There's some truth behind that, but she should avoid make generalized statements.

[QUOTE="GD1551"]

The minute she said developers use the trope to fulfill male power fantasies is also the minute any argument she had lost credibility and hear agenda displayed its ugly head.

Lionheart08

There's some truth behind that, but she should avoid make generalized statements.

She has no way of knowing that, and further more, straight from cliffy's own mouth -

"Why were there so many princesses in need of rescue? Because it was easy, and for many years we didnt have the tools or desire to try something else."

Seems to me like it wasn't for male power fantasies, it was just being lazy.

[QUOTE="Lionheart08"]

[QUOTE="GD1551"]

The minute she said developers use the trope to fulfill male power fantasies is also the minute any argument she had lost credibility and hear agenda displayed its ugly head.

GD1551

There's some truth behind that, but she should avoid make generalized statements.

She has no way of knowing that, and further more, straight from cliffy's own mouth -

"Why were there so many princesses in need of rescue? Because it was easy, and for many years we didnt have the tools or desire to try something else."

Seems to me like it wasn't for male power fantasies, it was just being lazy.

It is stated in her video that she recognizes it merely as a justification for gameplay and not the actual point of games.

I think part of it is that people feel threatened. As if their taste and enjoyment of games is being called bad. Which is silly (of course).

You can enjoy something and being critical of it. You can ask for more. You can expect more. And there is no reason why we shouldn't.

whiskeystrike

what

Anita doesn't come across as stupid.

She comes off as highly-intelligent and respectable.

She's not, but she doesn't come off as a moron unless you can see passed BS really well. She doesn't have all those subscribers for looking like NSFW AmazingAtheist and arguing like a four year old...

[QUOTE="biggest_loser"][QUOTE="Lionheart08"]

Anita was asking for 6000$ for her campaign. News hit the internet of the campaign, and the Taliban of videogaming responded in droves. Who was thisthiswoman who wanted to analyze women in video games?Lionheart08

It honestly wasn't that simple. Not to defend them, but Anita specifically went out there to bait people to get attention. Not to stay that the board that shall remained unnamed was justified (no they're ****) but Anita wasn't a poor oppressed victim either.

She posted a video on 4 Chan. Going there for intellectual discussion is like walking across the interstate blindfolded and wondering why you got hit by a car.

I'm in no way trying to victim blame, but it's no a coincidence that after the trolls attacked her her kickstarter donations went through the roof.

[QUOTE="whiskeystrike"]

I think part of it is that people feel threatened. As if their taste and enjoyment of games is being called bad. Which is silly (of course).

You can enjoy something and being critical of it. You can ask for more. You can expect more. And there is no reason why we shouldn't.

dkdk999

[QUOTE="biggest_loser"][QUOTE="Lionheart08"]

Anita was asking for 6000$ for her campaign. News hit the internet of the campaign, and the Taliban of videogaming responded in droves. Who was thisthiswoman who wanted to analyze women in video games?Lionheart08

It honestly wasn't that simple. Not to defend them, but Anita specifically went out there to bait people to get attention. Not to stay that the board that shall remained unnamed was justified (no they're ****) but Anita wasn't a poor oppressed victim either.

She posted a video on 4 Chan. Going there for intellectual discussion is like walking across the interstate blindfolded and wondering why you got hit by a car.

I'm in no way trying to victim blame, but it's no a coincidence that after the trolls attacked her her kickstarter donations went through the roof.

Clever girl

How can you say those two points together? You just said you don't like the way games over-sex women: thats exactly the sort of thing she's fighting against dude..biggest_loser

You can appreciate the intent but dislike the presentation.

She needs to work on how she is saying things, not necessarily what she is saying.  

THe material she puts forth is thoughtful and generally correct, but the way she goes about it is a little odd, somewhat akin to a person having legitimate gripes about gun control, and then storming an NRA meeting and squirting them in the face with waterguns.

As for Cliff's write up, I thought it was well said, and directed at the right people (the "boys" as he called them).

Concerning Kickstarter, I am still not sold on it, and think it is a get-rich quick mechanism for many out there, but that is another argument.

[QUOTE="dkdk999"][QUOTE="whiskeystrike"]

I think part of it is that people feel threatened. As if their taste and enjoyment of games is being called bad. Which is silly (of course).

You can enjoy something and being critical of it. You can ask for more. You can expect more. And there is no reason why we shouldn't.

biggest_loser

[QUOTE="biggest_loser"][QUOTE="Lionheart08"]

Anita was asking for 6000$ for her campaign. News hit the internet of the campaign, and the Taliban of videogaming responded in droves. Who was thisthiswoman who wanted to analyze women in video games?Lionheart08

It honestly wasn't that simple. Not to defend them, but Anita specifically went out there to bait people to get attention. Not to stay that the board that shall remained unnamed was justified (no they're ****) but Anita wasn't a poor oppressed victim either.

She posted a video on 4 Chan. Going there for intellectual discussion is like walking across the interstate blindfolded and wondering why you got hit by a car.

.

[QUOTE="GD1551"]

[QUOTE="Lionheart08"]

There's some truth behind that, but she should avoid make generalized statements.

whiskeystrike

She has no way of knowing that, and further more, straight from cliffy's own mouth -

"Why were there so many princesses in need of rescue? Because it was easy, and for many years we didnt have the tools or desire to try something else."

Seems to me like it wasn't for male power fantasies, it was just being lazy.

It is stated in her video that she recognizes it merely as a justification for gameplay and not the actual point of games.

She says that before and not a minute later says it was popular because it was used to tap into adolescent male power fantasies. She can't make statements like that and expect people to not to question her motives. I also think it says alot that she disabled comments and ratings.

Damsel in distress is a trope. So what? What does that matter towards feminism? If the roles were switched, would she still complain? Better yet, how is it problimatic as she suggests? Video games don't cause violence, and they don't cause people to look at women in an objective way. Things copied the SMB formula because that was the go-to game. How is playing a fat, Italian plumber who jumps on things tapping into male power fantasties more than guns and explosions? What games today are about saving the princess? All we get are CoD/dudebro shooters.

Notice how nothing she presented was modern, only classic and specifically one or two series. It's not an issue, and it never was to begin with. So why is it being brought up at all? Not only that, but she's attacking men and women for things that were never thought. No one played Mario and thought Peach was an object, therefor women are objects and must be treated as such. If anything, it just demonstrates how shallow the storyline/plot is, but that's actually a good thing in Mario games.

You know the industry is running out of creativity when they have to resort to debating about pointless sh!t like this.

Damsel in distress is a trope. So what? What does that matter towards feminism? If the roles were switched, would she still complain? Better yet, how is it problimatic as she suggests? Video games don't cause violence, and they don't cause people to look at women in an objective way. Things copied the SMB formula because that was the go-to game. How is playing a fat, Italian plumber who jumps on things tapping into male power fantasties more than guns and explosions? What games today are about saving the princess? All we get are CoD/dudebro shooters.

Notice how nothing she presented was modern, only classic and specifically one or two series. It's not an issue, and it never was to begin with. So why is it being brought up at all? Not only that, but she's attacking men and women for things that were never thought. No one played Mario and thought Peach was an object, therefor women are objects and must be treated as such. If anything, it just demonstrates how shallow the storyline/plot is, but that's actually a good thing in Mario games.

You know the industry is running out of creativity when they have to resort to debating about pointless sh!t like this.

ChubbyGuy40

It's an introductory video to a twelve part series. These are supposedly the rest of the videos.

The Fighting F#@k Toy - Video #2
The Sexy Sidekick - Video #3
The Sexy Villainess - Video #4
Background Decoration - Video #5
Voodoo Priestess/Tribal Sorceress - Video #6
Women as Reward - Video #7
Mrs. Male Character - Video #8
Unattractive Equals Evil - Video #9
Man with Boobs - Video #10
Positive Female Characters! - Video #11
Top 10 Most Common Defenses of Sexism in Games - Video #12

I didn't follow the link, and I have no prior knowledge of this situation. However, I feel confident in my decision to post this picture of game with a strong female lead to quell any misgivings about my preferences as a gamer...

Dear Mario, I've baked you a cake. Yours truly, Fat Princess.

P.S.- Thank you for the cake.

Noone should defend that ugly ****

Noone should defend that ugly ****

Jankarcop

It's an introductory video to a twelve part series. These are supposedly the rest of the videos.

The Fighting F#@k Toy - Video #2
The Sexy Sidekick - Video #3
The Sexy Villainess - Video #4
Background Decoration - Video #5
Voodoo Priestess/Tribal Sorceress - Video #6
Women as Reward - Video #7
Mrs. Male Character - Video #8
Unattractive Equals Evil - Video #9
Man with Boobs - Video #10
Positive Female Characters! - Video #11
Top 10 Most Common Defenses of Sexism in Games - Video #12

whiskeystrike

#2 is gonna be great, because you can damn near guarentee she won't talk about it from the opposite PoV because it'll nullify her argument. How is #8 and #10 any different? Can't wait for #12.

But again so what? They're tropes. Who cares? No one gives a damn about this supposed sexism. Why do we play as musclar and fearless characters on a quest to save the world? Because playing the weak and fat one who complains about the situation the entire time and can do nothing more than shake a stick would be beyond awful. If it's good, people will play it regardless of the gender. We're playing video games, not political and social correctness. If in #11 she lists the new Tomb Raider then she really deserves all of the hate and insults.

That list is awesome. I'd like to hear her take on Sexism in P0rnography.

If someone wants to make a game depicting women (or anything) in any way they want then that's fine. It's their art, and they should be able to do whatever they want with it as freely as their mind allows them to.

Nobody should feel bad for doing what they do, and I personally think it's not right that people set out to discourage others from not expressing themselves, or convince them that what they are doing is wrong.

Anyone who thinks they can stop any entertainment medium from catering to the lowest common denominator is an idiot.

Damsel in distress is a trope. So what? What does that matter towards feminism? If the roles were switched, would she still complain? Better yet, how is it problimatic as she suggests? Video games don't cause violence, and they don't cause people to look at women in an objective way. Things copied the SMB formula because that was the go-to game. How is playing a fat, Italian plumber who jumps on things tapping into male power fantasties more than guns and explosions? What games today are about saving the princess? All we get are CoD/dudebro shooters.

Notice how nothing she presented was modern, only classic and specifically one or two series. It's not an issue, and it never was to begin with. So why is it being brought up at all? Not only that, but she's attacking men and women for things that were never thought. No one played Mario and thought Peach was an object, therefor women are objects and must be treated as such. If anything, it just demonstrates how shallow the storyline/plot is, but that's actually a good thing in Mario games.

You know the industry is running out of creativity when they have to resort to debating about pointless sh!t like this.

ChubbyGuy40

Bloody hell...look at most male characters in video games.  They're good-looking, ripped, and shirtless half the time...how come men aren't rioting in the street every time a new fighting game comes out?  Ever been in an Abercrombie & Fitch?  The male models are essentially naked...they're hardly even advertising any clothing.  LOL.  

Meh...double standards...or men simply not caring...

[QUOTE="mccoyca112"]

[QUOTE="Lionheart08"]

She posted a video on 4 Chan. Going there for intellectual discussion is like walking across the interstate blindfolded and wondering why you got hit by a car.

 

I'm in no way trying to victim blame, but it's no a coincidence that after the trolls attacked her her kickstarter donations went through the roof.

magicalclick

Clever girl

I havnt been around for the past week or so due to moving home so I have missed this piece of news but from what I can understand its basically a woman standing up for feminism (extremely strong opinions that use extremes as examples?) but puts a valid point; for funding a game that what you go around killing these trolls?

I cant check it out properly due to the laptop I am on not having working sound [-_-] but I can imagine that she has valid points but they are sometimes extreme in some cases. Just from the opening 20secs before she starts talking it shows flashes off Mario, sonic, gears, crash bandicoot etc all with helpless looking women. I am just wondering, is her point just based on those games and ignores games like Rainbow six, Cod, Battlefield, in where you save other soliders or helpless men.

For sure, there is still a wave of sexism and over sexualisation of women in games to a degree, but I think it varies alot and to be honest, I would also argue, why are men the ones who have to do all of the work, who have to save everyone, why cant a woman do it. Not in a way that means women cant do it, but why should we except that men are EXPECTED to do it, thats a form of sexism, I personally couldnt careless but its still the same point, a point I think that probably wouldnt be met by feminists :P.

However on the point of this woman being bullied online, there is zero excuse for it. What sort of world do you want to live in where if by you raise your views about issues such as these you are put down so quickly with death threats and threats of rape. Its disgusting and frankly embarrasing because it just taints the "gamer" image. Its like being a football fan, people think you start fights, are stupid, drink lots and more than likely do nothing else with your time. Extremism in any forms is worrying, but an extremist in womens rights shouldnt have responses of death threats and threats of rape and god knows what else. It would be very interesting to see the faces of the people who put these comments, a nice name and shame is always appropiate.

People wanted this web series. The fact that she got so much money in the first place shows that people agree that it is an issue.

This guy destroys her.

Dude huge wrote some pretty great stuff.

She comes off as highly-intelligent and respectable.

Slashless

Which isn't to say 'oh she's bad and irrelevant at all'.

This guy destroys her.

KiZZo1

And hell, I say that liking the guys videos and even twitter stuff here and there.

The article is too boring to read. I tried like 5 times today and I just start skipping bits and don't see what all the fuss is about at all.
This is a woman who dislikes the portrayal of women in videogames or so? And she got money to 'study' how right she is? I don't really see how she matters.

OK so there was an uproar about her wanting to 'analyze' how females are portrayed in videogames. I understand why. Videogames are constantly under pressure of animal activists, feminists, politicians, artists and now even the weapons industry who try to turn videogames (or restrict I should say) to something only they approve of.
Now Cliffy wants to be saving the damsel in distress by posting an article like this, ridiculing the response (which we know from history is the absolute worst way to deal with criticism on the internet) and being very one sided without actually posting an argument for or against. I see a lot of ridiculing and none of the criticism is adressed and none of her reasons for why she should have the kickstarter are adressed. It's merely saying "Look how STUPID you are! Look at you! You look so STUPID!" in way too many words.