Rift Apart requirements revealed, SSD not required, Cerny exposed as a fraud and liar

Sony doesn't push a damn thing. Please, name a game Sony made that pushed gameplay as much as TOTK did. You won't find a single one. All you'll name are games with good graphics and shallow gameplay.

At least Mario games have more variety than Squeeze Through Corridor Simulator 4.

What's in totk was already accomplished Rust ages ago, and that's just one random game in the same builder/survivor genre. I mean shit, Ark is in the same boat as totk😂Ain't nobody is pushing anything with totk, its just your rose tinted glasses telling you to defend Zelda at all costs.

TLOU2 for example, has the most fluid third person shooter/third person survival gameplay/shooting of anything currently released. Unmatched. What open world game aims at this much micro detail as HFW? There's none, including CP2077 which looks like shit up close. The newest Ratchet looks like a damn Pixar movie, and not only visually, but animations wise as well. Sony is so far ahead of anything Nintendo can accomplish that comparing the two feels like mega trolling Sony.

Nintendo is a simple little company creating simpleton little games where you collect shiny little things, jump on mushrooms and save princesses. Sony is a serious company, not one that aims at kids.

The level of things you can do and polished content, little indie Rust isn't even close to TotK. And Ark? Wtf puke. Now, I know you're smarter than that, but others might not.

Still a boring cinematic third person shooter, of which Sony has hundreds. Since it's just another boring cinematic third person shooter, you just had to say "most fluid tps ever", as it doesn't do anything that's even remotely new.

lol, who the **** cares? Go play your micro details then. But hey, if we're going there, TotK has way more detail than the boring as **** Horizon games, talking physics and shit.

Again, graphics. Basically the only shit you've mentioned. Too bad the game is, yet again, boring.

In graphics? Yeah, I think pretty much everyone has established that.

Nintendo is a humongously rich company creating games that everyone can enjoy, and have pretty much done so since 1889. Sony is a soulless copy cat company creating what they think 15 year olds who sometimes play games wants.

@hardwenzen: Quit lying. None of Rust or Ark has any of those. I play these games daily so don’t try to pull a fast one on me. You could have led with Nuts n Bolts, but you haven’t played it. On what damn planet is TOTK a builder/survivor wtf lol? At least put some effort in your shit trolling.

Show me where in Ark or Rust you can do this. I’ll wait.

And lol at "most fluid 3rd person" whatever the hell it means. The rest of your post is graphics, animations, graphics, none of which pushes the medium forward.

What a joke.

They already did it way back when PS5 was allowed to use other SSDs. R&C was shown to be able to run perfectly on a absolute low spec SSD.

cell was trash for gaming. but the cell was powerful. it can crunch numbers like you never seen. even helped with cancer research. the high end pc would take a mouth to get the results while the cell 3 days. cell was also great for sound. why cerny went back to the spreas in the sound chip of the ps5.

if you think rachet and clank, ghost, hfw2 and god of war, last of us 2 have shallow gameplay then you need to find a new hobby.

um it took over a year after the ps5 to get ssd that could be ps5 compatible in the pc market. it has to be 5gig per second ssd.

HFW2 has great physics now. even the enemy's laser cuts through the sand. guerilla games updated the emotion engine physics. they took the feed back from the first game and made sure they added it in the second one. horizon is a beautiful game to win digitary foundry graphics of the year.

Actually no Western Digital SN 850's(over 7gb/s read) were available to pre-order on the 8th of October in 2020 it took Sony until September of 2021 to update the PS5 to actually allow users to use the M.2 slot.... On top of the fact that 5gb/s m.2 SSD's were available back in 2019. It was Sony who fumbled not SSD manufactures....

A lot of people hating on the Cell, the Cell was not trash it was just harder for developers to work with.

On the flip side how bout that Ssd Powah of the PS5, those specs are a lie there’s no way a normal pc can run Rachet on a hdd. Cerny himself told me the ssd in the ps5 would make my ps5 on par with a 4080. Cerny doesn’t lie so I guess these pc requirements are false, just an attempt to give pcs users hope the game will run without the ps5 ssd.

The PS5 development suite is better. It also apparently has less overhead. Nothing to do with the SSD.

Not even a 4090 can keep up with the PS5 SSD. That thing is so beastly that they should have put 16K on the box instead of 8K.

Yes, because we all thought Cerny was being 100% earnest before. He wasn't just trying to sell a product or anything.

Awesome, skipped getting this and PS5 since I'm too used to playing games at 90 frames or higher. Tried this game on my cousin's Playstation and it felt like a slideshow.

Hopefully it runs well on PC.

THat's really awesome.

RTX 4080 is what you need for 4K/60 fps with RT/max settings.

Not unexpected considering R&C:RA has some of the best graphics ever.

Would look glorious on 4090 max settings. Might double dip even if I have the platinum.

@kvallyx said:

@hardwenzen said:

Sony pushes the industry.

Is this the game that won goty awards all over the place?

@hardwenzen said:

@kvallyx said:

@hardwenzen said:

Sony pushes the industry.

Is this the game that won goty awards all over the place?

No, this is Naughty Dog's PC release. Zero awards.

@kvallyx said:

@hardwenzen said:

@kvallyx said:

@hardwenzen said:

Sony pushes the industry.

Is this the game that won goty awards all over the place?

No, this is Naughty Dog's PC release. Zero awards.

Ah then its not important what's on pc. Playstation is all that matters, and it won everything on MY system.

Go back to school Cerny 😉

Will be interesting to see how this works like is it going to freeze for a few seconds when portals open up or what? Either way though its also the best looking game this gen so far and one of the better ratchet games.

doesn't change the fact he still a genius. he is reason they went from cell alien tech (ps3) to simple ps4. making it easier for developers.

Wish our boy Tormy was still around to damage control the situation.😭

What makes him a genius? You do know that the PS4 and PS5 is using AMD right?

Right i'm probably going to take some flack for this but:

Ok Cerny getting a lot of flak here for something he didn't do....er...mostly. Has anyone actually watched the video? Not some article on it or anything....the actual video? The media made an absolute dogs dinner in reporting on it and Social media completely lost the run of itself.

Now in fairness he does talk about PS5 specifics (which is his job) and does hype the benefits of the PS5s setup over other systems at the time (which, again, is his job). But if you do decide to watch it again just Substitute Xbox or PC in every time he says PS5. Because, fundamentally, everything he says can be applied to any other system.

But the TL;DW version of it is having an SSD allows developer to more aggressively swap data in and out of Ram, thus reducing (that's reducing, not eliminating) the need for using ram as a cache. On the PS4 and X1 more than 50% of ram is used for data caches because the HDD is too slow. This is very wasteful from a system architecture standpoint. That's it. That's all he talks about regarding the SSD....just how the PS5s setup supports this idea. Then he goes on to talking about ears and it gets weird.

This isn't a new approach either. It's more trying to make old memory management tricks on consoles viable again. MVG had a video on the Doom 3 port to the OG xbox and they did a similar things since the Xbox had a HDD (which,for an OG xbox, was a huge speed boost over a DVD drive in terms of transfer speeds, seek times and latency). It would more aggressively swap assets between RAM and the HDD so the developer could get the most out of the 64MB the system had. On the 360 and PS3 developers would do the same to varying degrees of success.

Why are we not seeing much benefit so far? Theme of the gen isn't it. It's still PS4 tech running on steroids. Devs asked for a bunch of new toys. But, for whatever reason (probably time and money), they are not using them.

yes and he moved sony in that direction. he also programed marble madness at the age of 18. I know I wasn't doing much during 18 except working at mc donalds and taco bell.

He also developed saga master system 3-d glasses himself.

there is a reason sony chose him for head design at sony corp.

@mrbojangles25: Pull a Sega and use the power of Blast Processing? 😜

Nothing you stated makes him a genius. You not applying yourself at 18 doesn't equate to anyone that did being a genius.

yet the internet calls him one.

wither he is a genius or not he done a lot to the gaming community.

how many 18 year olds you know makes a full game? heck he worked for atari at age of 17.

you not applying yourself? How many 17 years old do you know that has that much knowledge without collage? most Geniuses do.

@gifford38: The internet is filled with folks like you who say a lot of nonsense, it does not equate to being true. I can say the Internet told me that SSDs render triangles, would that make it true?

Again, don't use your lack of applying yourself as a benchmark for someone being a genius when they do.

I don't know anyone that calls him a genius. Well, besides raging PS fanboys.

Speaking of your high school....did you drop out?

W T F?

yet the internet calls him one.

wither he is a genius or not he done a lot to the gaming community.

how many 18 year olds you know makes a full game? heck he worked for atari at age of 17.

you not applying yourself? How many 17 years old do you know that has that much knowledge without collage? most Geniuses do.

@kvallyx: das iz y he calz hymn a genius.😂

I swear! Kids these days!

@osan0:

Actually Cerny him self has said preposterous things like no more loading with the PS5 SSD and the assets can be streamed in as you're turning the camera because of high bandwidth SSD. Everything will happen on the fly. That's pretty much the gist of his exact quote.

This was proven false long before as soon as they revealed R&C on PS5 because the rifts themselves are nothing but loading screens after the on rails segments. Exactly what he said wouldn't be needed any more. I think he gave an example of Jak and Daxter on how devs masks loading and how it won't be needed. Anyone with more than two brain cells knows it was a complete and utter lie because the SSD's bandwidth is no where near enough for it to be possible.

Cerny is nothing but a snake oil sales man like all the PR guys.

@pc_rocks:

He is technically not wrong. You can do it while the camera is turning if the turning rate is slow enough :P.j/k

Nah in all seriousness though I rewatched the vid yesterday to see if there was any actual shenanigans and he merely proposed a question. He Said "What if you could load in textures while turning" at that infamous point. But it's just a thought exercise. At that point he is talking about level designers needing to design their levels in such a way that certain areas are hidden and the player is slowed down so the game can load. So he is comparing the 2 extremes of long corridors and loading elevators vs streaming in while turning (Which would be very nice if it was possible).

It leads back to my original post about being more aggressive about swapping data between the SSD and Ram. Here is a vid from MVG talking about this approach for the OG Xbox as an example of being aggressive with asset swapping:

https://youtu.be/xrTtNhdfqSo?t=423

This idea was also used a lot on the PS3 and 360: sometimes at a cost (Gears 1 especially had notorious texture pop in because the DVD drive was struggling to keep up).

They moved away from doing this on the PS4 and X1 because the Laptop HDDs were just too slow relative to the data demands PS4/X1 games put on it.

Also note that at no point did he suggest that developers could stream directly to the GPU and bypass Vram. He actually goes to great lengths to discuss how the PS5 manages the workload of getting data from the SSD to main memory and ready for the GPU. Any suggestion of the SSD acting as Vram was a media screw up.

Seriously, if you havent, watch the original vid (and try to park the seething hatred for a sec. Everything he says in terms of benefits applies to the Xbox and PC too). The first 25 mins or so are about memory management in the PS5. He mostly just compares it to the PS4. Both the Velocity Architecure in the Xbox and Direct Storage on the PC have the same goals about improving efficiency and throughput when moving data from tertiary storage to main memory.

I do agree though that there currently isn't any game that does give a more robust demonstration. Games like R&C and Forspoken are just basic brute force. Load big lump of data then stay away from the SSD as much as possible. Very much PS4 thinking and just brute force. Theme of the gen really. It's all still just a but theoretical.

Not really his main point was how the approach used in Jak and Daxter won't be needed any more where devs had to mask it aka slow walking sections when he said what if you can load while turning. That's a direct marketing and a reference to how PS5 SSD will enable it. Why even bring it if that's not the point? Did MS said something like this in their presentation? Did Nvidia said anything even remotely close to it when unveiling RTX IO even though they had twice the bandwidth and performance over PS5? It's a PR statement and a downright lie. Not just that Sony even had a slide in their earnings about how PS5 has 100x more processing speed than PS5.

The rest of the post is what I said back when both consoles were revealed long before any one did. I specifically called that the reason both MS and Sony went with SSD is not to decrease load times or anything but they want it to serve as a secondary cache to save on memory. The consoles didn't even double the memory this gen.

Then his earlier remarks about PC lagging in SSDs or something as well when he damn well knew that they aren't and PC will have both faster SSDs and faster IO even before PS5 will hit the market because that's where he learned how to do that. It's not like Sony designed the SSD or IO. Both Nvidia and AMD had done similar things. AMD even had a GPU for content creators named SSG and Nvidia released the precursor of RTX IO (GPU Direct for enterprise customers).

Leaving all that aside, it's not like developers never have access to stuff like that before or they needed the hardware decompression block or specific APIs. Did that make it easy for them, yes but it wasn't something new. John Carmack even posted on that how devs could always by pass the OS APIs on PC to work around with the bottlenecks of traditional IO.

And it's not like he doesn't have a history of lying and misleading the audience dating back a decade with PS4. As I said he's a snake oil salesman just like all the other PR guys. Yes he's a PR person and not really a chief architect or whatever title he gives him self. What he does for Sony is pretty much done by Phil him self at MS and we all know he's no architect.

I still can’t believe people are arguing about this. Sony gave us 2 seconds loading screens or 5-10 seconds to load an open world game obviously the SSD is working. If you don’t like it stick to HDD

@pc_rocks: I'm now remembering having a similar discussion before...was that you?

Anyway we are going to have to disagree on this. Your taking offense from comments, using them in isolation and running them to the nines, like the media did, and treating them as PR. Did you even watch the video? It's a thought exercise for level designers and nothing more. Seriously look at it if you haven't (just stop at the ears). His conclusion and yours are in alignment believe it or not. He uses an extreme example to get people thinking. What he suggests is just the holy grail...the target. Doesn't mean he hit it and the numbers he shows demonstrate that they clearly didn't hit it.

On the PC comment: Look. Find an SSD (that's 1X SSD. Not a raid setup or some high end data server stuff that costs 50000) on the PC that people could buy that was available on or before Sept 2019 (When he said it) that can transfer data faster than 5.5GB/s and i'll certainly concede that he got it wrong on the hardware front (The PC was sorted on the GPU front: Turing was out by then). I had a look and the earliest I could find of an actual PCi-E 4 SSD product with >5.5GB/s was Oct 2020.

Hell even if the PC just had a 3.5GB/s SSD available, maybe he is still wrong and GPU decompression would be enough to get the overall data transfer rate over the PS5s....but we currently have limited data on that so we can't prove either way (I could only find some synthetic benchmarks for a 4080). Maybe a gen 3 SSD and a 2080TI will clobber a PS5 in data transfer speeds from the SSD to main memory. We currently don't know.

The rest of it.....yeah i'm not going to even bother. What are you actually complaining about? Is it the fact that Cerny didn't explicitly say that the PC would catch up to the PS5 by the time the PS5 released...is that what has you so annoyed?

Face it, Cerny should be sent to a Gulag to teach him not to lie next time. And for Knack, let's not forget his crimes against gamerkind.

Oh it's not Knack he needs to pay for. It's Marble Madness.........DDAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!

There were 5gb/s SSD's show cased all the way back in May of 2019. The controllers used at that time were limited to 5GB/s. Back in the summer of 2019 You could grab a ASUS Hyper M.2 expansion card( and raid them if you actually needed the speed. But really the argument with 5.5gb/s vs 5 gb/s as a talking point was "short sighted". Because Even before the PS5 officially released there were SSD's available that were "faster". But the kicker is that the PS5 m.2 was disabled for nearly a year after its launch.

Most probably would be me because I have been calling it a lie since day 1 in numerous posts explaining that SSD won't bring about the change Cerny is hyping. R&C reveal back in the day just cemented it.

Actually, I did watch the video before and don't have the patience to go through it again. As I said it wasn't just a thought experiment, it was a question parading as an statement of the greatness of PS5 SSD/IO. It would have been a thought experiment if he had qualified it by saying we are not there yet which he didn't. I mean you can't go to a marketing talk and say imagine if pigs can fly, that would by definition mean that wahtever you're selling will make the pigs fly or why even bring it up.

Oh and he wasn't talking to game designers or game engine programmers. Technical talks when given usually involve technical audience and have QAs but marketing events generally do not, which it was. It was just a PR event meant for usual consumers pretending to be a technical talk. Programmers and designers by that point already had the dev kits and if I say so much more knowledgeable and hands on with stuff Cerny definitely isn't. Whatever he said in that talk was covered by Phil Spencer in a blog post for Xbox.

There were 5GBs/s drives back in 2019, hell there were Intel drives with more channels than what Sony haveback in 2015 or 16 even if not the speed. But that's not the point. Even if there aren't, he was alluding to a fiction and again making a PR statement to the consolites that Sony is going to bring a revolution that PC doesn't have or won't have when he clearly knew faster drives are on the way. As I said, it's not like Sony design their own SSDs or IO or SSD controllers or even a factor in what specs/standards are being worked on. Not just him even Tim Sweeney was all in on the marketing that PS5 was leading the charge and not sure if PCs will be able to match it as late as when they unveiled UE5 demo. Clearly the owner of the UE5 wasn't unaware about the GPU Decompression or RTX IO. All PR, nothing of substance or truth.

Well, the main point is entire premise of his talk was complete garbage and a a usual PR talk with very little to do with actual substance. He was hyping an unreleased product and since he lost the numbers game to MS with XSX, he focused on one aspect where he had a upper hand: SSD and he downright lied about PS5 bringing any change to game design. Remember the original post was by you that Cerny him self didn't mislead or lied but media misquoted him which as demonstrated is false. I haven't even gone into the clocks vs compute debate yet either.

Would you rather them take the Microsoft approach and talk about their 12 tflop GPU only to have their multiplats look no better than the competition and in some cases worse?

Sony have talent, MS doesn't. If the PS5 had X specs, you can bet your ass its exclusives would look and run a bit better.

im 47 years old dont call me a kid. im not trying to win awards for english or typing in system wars. I think he is a genius and has been one of my gaming idols for years now. he reminds me of Dana Carvey lol.

I never said the ssd will render triangles. I said load it strait to the gpu to skip system memory. load in triangles

If this was Phil Spencer he would be getting a lot of backlash.

No it doesn't. It was never claimed to do that. Whatever media or post stated so made a balls of their understanding.

For a texture to appear on the screen it MUST, ABSOLUTELY MUST, BE IN RAM (and ideally VRAM on the PC). Not debatable. End of. If you think differently you are factually wrong.

I remember looking at it ages ago and the PS5 SSD would make for decent Vram ...for a gamecube (Latency on the PS5 SSD may still be a problem though). A 22 year old console.

Seriously post a link that says the PS5 can stream textures straight to the GPU and bypass Vram...I could do with a laugh.

@04dcarraher: 5 GB/s is not bigger than 5.5 GB/s (Not that it would make an actual huge difference in games). But yes there were indeed 7GB/s SSDs available on the PC when the PS5 actually released. Hardware wise the PC was certainly well sorted by late 2020.

@pc_rocks: Yeah we are just going to go round and around in circles with added moving goal posts. You have clearly made your mind up. I have made my mind up. No point in a further debate.

A rare sight. Someone that knows what they are talking about. 👍🏽

You did and others have seen your claim. Even this claim is false because absolutely NOTHING is processed on the GPU or CPU without being in RAM.