@blackember36x: Bastion and Mark of The Ninja are really super awesome. Shank 2 is a pretty cool beat em up. I'm playing Steam World Dig right now.

BROFORCE. ABSOLUTELY, BROFORCE.

Nitronic Rush is probably the only car game I've ever liked. It was a game by some Digipen students.

I apoligize for one thing. I forgot to state I'm talking exclusively about PC's. Not mobile devices.

3. No. It doesn't bug me that they tried to make it more simple. It isn't really that much simpler anyway. I just thought it was funny that it's big thing in the advertising campaign was it's ease of use and simplicity, but how difficult of a time some people, including techies, that have had a hard time with it.

Example: "All those games you love? There right here in games." Because up until now, they never have been. And it's never been possible to make folder called Games before. It's never been possible to have a device with both word processors and games on it before. Those are all the amazing new advantages that Windows 8 offers.

4. You don't have too. I don't hate it as a feature, but again, it's sold as one of it's advantages, but it isn't.

5. I'm sure they're neat with a touch screen. But PC's were pre-installed with it, and if you don't have a mouse, the gesture controls are irritating. They aren't random. They actually always work, but when the gesture control just moving the mouse left or right ( an incredibly common occurrence) it happens when you don't want it to.

6. Just pointing out that the old start menu was better. I don't dislike it. I know you can type to search. There just isn't a reason why the option couldn't have been provided to switch to a normal start menu, if they were going to invest so much in the new start menu.

7. What if I don't where know where to find what I'm looking for? If I knew the gist of what I wanted to find, but didn't know exactly where it could be found? Maybe, you don't even know the keywords, but you'll know it when you see it. Normally, you find things by looking around. This is massively more difficult with Windows 8.

As far as the start menu's actual searching ability is concerned, 8 seemed to work much better than 8.1 8.1 seems to find only a select few objects from what you typed in. After hitting enter, a tab pops in a background window separate from the desktop. Not that big of a deal, but needing to close your search results is a step backwards.

8. Windows 8 requires that you send a request to your Microsoft account to change your password. You can change it Local mode, but it's makes the local user an entirely separate account from the online one. If you learn this after you've already invested plenty of time on it ( pretty likely), you either have to start fresh or transfer all your things and change all the setting again.

9. Ok, you got me on this one. There is indeed a log out button. But it's in a weird spot. It's in the top right corner of the start menu, separate from it's friends, the Shutdown, Restart, and Switch User. Why? It doesn't even say logout. It's just your profile pic and your name. I went a massive amount of time without knowing this, letting the other account bog me down when I didn't feel like shutting down. Other people had the same problem. Google it.

10. Too complicated. Not getting into it. Microsoft has made some....questionable decisions concerning how their customers. The Xbox One and Windows 8 being a beta are the most recent things. Yes. They did officially state it was a beta.

11. I think you missed the main point of the message. 11. I think I've found over 50 problems in the past the I KNEW where specifically 8's fault.

Admitted, some of glitches could have been coincidence, but a majority of them were not. It was glitchy. Because it was a beta.

1. In any other case, I might agree with you. The biggest problems with 8 having nothing to do with the start menu. I also don't think start up speed is THAT much of a plus. Changing any setting, especially a BIOS setting, it harder than it needs to be. I don't know about 8.1, but with 8, it was impossible to reach the BIOS from start up on some systems with 8 pre-installed. 8 is hard to troubleshoot as it is, but not being able to access the BIOS right off is a serious problem.

2.DAMN IT SECUREBOOT

3. Windows 8's big advertised selling point was its ease of use. Anyone, including a computer illiterate, could use it. The commercials and advertising campaign try to point out things that ANY device can do as its advantages. It's like trying to sell a chair based on the fact that you can sit on it. The funny thing is that for any non-techie, Windows 8 is very difficult to use, let alone some techies, which also can have a hard time using it.

4. One of the biggest changes was copied from Linux, and done terribly. The way some things need to be opened in an entirely different kind of screen or interface is stupid. It doesn't add anything. It feels more like a gimmick than a feature.

5.Gesture Controls - D:<

6. The start menu. I know I just said I don't care about it. It's still inferior. It doesn't bug me, but it's still a flaw. The only thing it has going for it is synch between PC and mobile devices, which is what is was designed for. But even people that use it for that reason explicitly drop it almost immediately.

7. The menu maze. If I ever want to change a setting, I need to navigate a labyrinth of menus that seem to explain nothing to a person that doesn't already know what they mean. These menus are only useful if you already know what all the information explains and where every link goes. Learning them wouldn't be a problem, if they didn't seem to lead you in a circle, helped you learn anything, or assisted you in any way before needing to search for HOW TO FIND whatever you were trying to find on the internet.

Really? Didn't deem this part necessary of your normally unnecessary instructions or tutorials Microsoft?

8. I need to send on online request to my Microsoft account.

9. The absence of a log out button. Oh sure, you can sign in to another account, but no accounts can actually sign out.

10. It belongs to Microsoft. Yes, That's bad. I used to be a big Microsoft supporter, but man.... they've done a lot of "corporate bastard" style stuff in recent years and I only see it getting worse in the future. How are we ever supposed to trust this company ever again? Logical fallacy or personal preference, take your pick why I'm wrong and that isn't relevant. But you know it applies.

11. Glitches and failures are rampant. I find a new reason to hate Windows 8 almost every week. I think I've found over 50 problems in the past the I KNEW where specifically 8's fault.

12. IT WAS A BETA. MICROSOFT MADE YOU PAY FOR AN UNTESTED, UNFINISHED REHASH OF 7. Microsoft has officially stated that it was a beta.

I wouldn't count this as a failure, but I could have sworn the search tool was WAY faster with normal 8 than 8.1.

In most cases, yes, people prefer familiarity over learning something new. It takes time, effort, and sentient thought. It's not impossible that this isn't the case for plenty of Windows 8 haters. But that loathing is based on truth. Backlash doesn't ALWAYS mean people are just unwilling to absorb new information. Also a Microsoft product that had enormous backlash - The Xbox One. Anyone that supports its original plans? Hmmm??? So few people do that it actually made it on to mainstream news to talk about how everyone hates the new idea? Well that's funny....same company as Windows 8....same company that tried to force it's HTML internet standards on web developers....Being a Microsoft hater isn't weird thing anymore. Slandering big name powers like companies and governments is more popular now than it was before. But only because it's so much easier now. There are so many more terrible things large powers end up doing, it's hard to find a person that has an totally positive view on everything.

My biggest beef is how difficult it is to change any setting. 8.1 is a little better, but not by much. It has to pull up this irritating interface to change minor things that would have been fine in the normal interface. Plus, it's sometimes difficult to troubleshoot because it seems to hide what's really going on behind an "easy to use" interface, which, if I wasn't a tech person, would drive me crazy.

I also experience lag and other problems like I've never seen before. I really hate it.

@MlauTheDaft - Agreed. To be far though, this game probably won't focus on the story because we already know what it is. It's about the the war between humans and vampires, which we already know happened, why it happened, and it's outcome. Not to say they couldn't add to it, but it isn't exactly necessary for the game.

@PredatorRules e I liked Defiance for all those things. :D But it's a matter of preference I suppose. Although I do think there were sections that droned on a little too long in the spectral realm or didn't have enough hints as to how to proceed.

@JigglyWiggly_ - I think it's looking promising so far. The difference between humans, vampires, and all the clans is high. Humans look quick in moving and tactical with long range specialized weapons. Like in the video, humans make weapons, but vampires are weapons. They have unique supernatural melee abilities. It's set during the human vs vampire war when the vampires are just beginning to devolve. In other words, each vampire clan plays very differently because they all devolve in different ways. It looks pretty interesting. Pick the vampires, and you might be able to fly, bull rush, etc. depending on the clan, where humans have different weapons. I think they copied the feel well. Humans look like, well, humans, and vampires look supernatural in an aggressive and brutal kind of way. From watching the video, it looks like the contrast really emulates the emotion of being on either side well.

http://forums.na.square-enix.com/forumdisplay.php?f=97

http://forums.na.square-enix.com/showthread.php?t=8329&p=75349#post75349

That's were the discussion is going down. The first one is the general board of threads and the second is a thread that has some possible explanations for the Razielim. It's interesting, but the current explanations seem kind of like quick fixes. It says there will be more information on things in the next phase.

I had the same initial reaction too. It's a complete curve ball that no one wanted or expected. Although it does make sense within the context of the history, it's still a questionable decision to put different ingredients in the Legacy of Kain brew. It doesn't seem to be aimed at the original fans of the game because it doesn't bare almost any story references besides pointing out war. The only reason that makes sense to me is to bring in new people that have never heard of the series before. And since the history has room for a game that hits that demographic, it isn't such a preposterous business move.

I'm no expert on MMO's, but having seen some of the videos, it does look interesting. They contrast the difference between humans and vampires well. Playing as a vampire looks kind of like a mix between Prince of Persia and God of War, except from a Star Wars battlefront angle and style, but more simplistic. The only thing that really bugs me is the Razielim and their wings. It's a missed oppurtunity to explain what happened to the Razielim, and I'm not even sure if the Razielim having wings at all makes sense, considering what happened.

Truthfully, I think it looks fun so far. But it's nevertheless strange to throw this type of game into the mix when before the focus was on thought provoking story, puzzle solving, exploration, and the unique method of fighting strange foes. To make an MMO now after they canceled Dark Prophecy is almost feels like a betrayal or sellout. To be far though, we don't know why Dark Prophecy was canceled. It may have been funding, or maybe the developers didn't think there was enough interest in the series or type of game anymore. But supporting this MMO might restore enough interest and rake in enough money to make the sequel everyone really wanted.

Or maybe it's more convoluted than that. We're dealing with some smart people here. I think they would have known how these things would have come across, so maybe they did it on purpose for some other reason we don't know about yet. Maybe they didn't like what they had so far and wanted to start again later, but in secrecy. Maybe they wanted to generate interest in the series again with a game like this MMO before releasing the last title, so they could end with a bang. It could be more complicated than it's surface value.

In any event, I'll be watching this one. It's the kind of thing that I don't think should be dismissed right off because of first impressions. It's just in the beta anyway. I share the confusion and agitation, but I'm not ready to write it off as bad as for the series or bad as a stand alone game yet.

Agreed. Some commentary and better boss fights aren't enough to even put a tag on. Even if it was free, I don't think I would pick it up again unless I was specifically in the mood for it. I really enjoyed it, so it wouldn't take much to have me on board. Just a few more missions and an addition to some upgrades and it would have been worth it. But still not for $20.

Awesome game though. I played it on pc.

I voted for The Last Ride. I have no idea who anyone is cuz I don't come here much, but he has the coolest name. 8);)