[QUOTE="web966"]Its winning because it had a years head start.frodnekcod

bingo, i cant believe the TC, is he dumb, also, this is a very thought provoking thread, congrats:?

Clearly there is a lot more to it than a year's head start.

Sony has/had 5 times the install base with the PS2 over the XBox. 

All other things being equal, Sony should sell 5 times the Xbox 360 over comparable time periods.  They both have sold about the same in the first 6 months.

Ipso facto there is a lot more going on than a year's head start....namely the PS3 price point and lack of games.

What we know with certainty is that a huge % of PS2 owners are sitting on the fence and have not yet been motivated to jump into the current generation.

You people are freaks.

A guy compliments an upcoming game and compares its graphics to a known benchmark for quality console graphics.

I don't see where he says GeOW is the greatest, blah, blah, it can never be better blah, blah.

And you freaks are all over him.  OMG, it's done on the same Unreal engine, OMG you are a retard for not knowing that it will be better on UT itself.

And then you start squabbling over which system it will look better on.

You are freaks I say...freaks.

The game looks great.  It'll likely look and play great on any system.

Oh, and since this is SW....whatever system you have sucks compared to mine.  So there.  Deal with it freakazoids :)

Totally jazzed about both of them.

Bioshock is a FPS because the creators set out to redefine the standard(s) for FPS games....that is a specific goal of theirs.  It also explains why it doesn't neatly fit into the 'normal' of FPS...it is trying to be better/different than typical FPS games.

Both games look fantastic visually and from described gameplay...for somewhat different reasons.  Bioshock gets my slight, slight, slight nod.....due to the full-on creepy factor and the environmental AI.

Best game ever made by mankind????

Christians vs Lions - Roman Colliseum, circa 100 AD

Panzer General, Panzer General 2, Panzer General 3...one of the most successful PC gaming franchises ever.  Play either side.

Axis and Allies...one of the most successful military themed board games ever.  Play either side.

thread over

SUD123456

sad..I have to quote myself :)

Why won't this thread die?  It can be done, it HAS been done, it can be fun playing the Germans without any reference to Nazism, and it has been fun playing the Germans in the past.  It is all in HOW the material is presented.

So pls stop with the crap that it can't be done.....it has been done..many times.  Get over it.

Panzer General, Panzer General 2, Panzer General 3...one of the most successful PC gaming franchises ever.  Play either side.

Axis and Allies...one of the most successful military themed board games ever.  Play either side.

thread over

Purchasing the PS 3 now is by definition NOT the best deal ever.

I'm not bashing the PS 3, it is the same for all the consoles.  The very nature of the product is that core price will fall over time, and game libraries will increase over time.

Therefore buying a PS3 or a 360 or a Wii at full pop early after realese with limited game libraries is BY DEFINITION DUMB.

Early adopters never get the best deals...period...end of story...for any technology.

If any of us had a brain, we would dump what we have bought, play some of the good last generation games that we missed first time around, buying those games in the discount bin for a few $s, wait a year, and then buy what we want for cheaper than what we are paying now.  That would be a much better deal.

The horse is supposed to be ahead of the cart, not the other way around.  The question is not how much should a $600 console with few games sell?; but rather, what should a console be priced at and what game support does it need to sell well?

Sony is trying to win in the MASS MARKET, not in a niche market.  They have an install base of 110+million vs MS 20 million.  All things being equal they SHOULD be pummelling MS in sales.  MS will reach last generations 20 million in sales by a year from today at the latest.  Everything else they sell in the years ahead is going to cut in to Sony's market share.  That is the good news.

The bad news is that Sony is also under withering assault by Nintendo, especially in Sony's backyard, Japan.  So, not only are they losing market share to MS but they are also losing even more market share to Nintendo.

Ipso facto, they are in serious trouble/decline getting punished by both casuals and hardcore gamers.

That doesn't mean that they won't sell a decent amount.  It doesn't mean that PS3 is just going to vanish.  In fact, since most PS 2 owners are obviously still waiting....Sony could still come out on top and could still sell the most consoles in absolute numbers.  Too bad that doesn't really matter.  You freak fanboys think that simple #s sold matter and that if Sony ends up at 34% vs 33% 360 and 33% Wii that that would be a win..or success.  Wrong.  That would be a total disaster.

Sony has started with 80%+ market share.  There is no possible way that they will keep anywhere near that market share this generation.  You ask what should a $600 console sell?  I ask why they were stupid/arrogant enough to price at $600 and lose huge market share.

Sony launch strategy = failure at best, catastrophic failure possible

Nintendo launch strategy = stunning success

MS launch strategy = somewhere in between

Think about it...by the end of 2007 360 and Wii sales combined will already have achieved last generations total sales for non-PS 2s.  Therefore,  9/10 consoles sold after Jan 1st 2008 would have to be PS 3s for Sony to maintain market share.  Clearly that won't happen.

Consequently, this generation is already a body blow to Sony and a loss (compared to last generations market share).  The only question is how much share are they going to lose?  And is it possible for them to lose the number 1 position?  They probably will still finish first in absolute sales but they will have been smoked in losing market share.

Since this is a marathon, not a sprint, that means Nintendo and MS are both going to be relatively stronger, and Sony relatively much weaker which sets up a bloodbath for Wii2, MS720, and PS4.....which is likely the best possible outcome for us the consumers.   Competition is good.  Enjoy whatever system you have and hope they all do reasonably well...it is in our interest.

Because gimmick's are meant for short term gains.  Developers make games for the Wiimote but after N cashes in money, they will move on to the next gimmick which in turn wastes development costs for publishers and sets the industry economy haywire.

Eyetoy and achievements are not gimmicks as they are here to stay to be used as an everyday item.  Therefore, it is called innovation rather than gimmick. 

NobuoMusicMaker

Wrong.  You act like PS360 and their choices on direction are the predetermined best course for games and the industry.  The market will determine what is right, and what is needed, and what is successful.  If the Wiimote exists over multiple years and sells 50-100 million units then it will DESERVE applause.  There is no right and wrong in Capitalism.  There are winners and losers.

You personally value eyetoy and achievements.  I happen to like eyetoy.  Achievements don't mean a damn thing to me.  I could care less if they ever existed.  Which of us is right?  Neither in isolation...the market will determine it.  The PS version is moving towards Trophies...it is possible that MS points are a worthless fad, gimmick and will die within 2 years.

It is also possible that Wii will wipe the floor with both of us.  Indeed, it is possible in a new enlarged gaming market that you and I are both in the minority....and that eyetoy is not as relevant as simplicity, fun and pricepoint.

Again, there is no right and wrong.  Capitalism creates, Capitalism destroys.  The markets will determine which....and there is no God given path on which way the market should proceed with game development.  The most important thing to remember is that all of this is business...each firm has their strategy, but none of them care about esoteric things like the true and righteous defined path of gaming.  They care about making money and they will pursue separate strategies to position their products and services...then WE the buying public will choose winners and losers.  Don't cry over distorting the industry economics...there is no such thing as distortion in a free market. 

There are winners and losers and the results will cause change.  Beta was superior to VHS...they lost, get over it.  Want your preferred format to win?  Then I suggest you spend lots of money buying as many games as you can for your preferred format because that is the only influence you are going to have (or any of us).