Nancy Pelosi facing potential revolt over condemning Rep. Ilhan Omar's remarks about Israel

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ad1x2

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#1 ad1x2
Member since 2005 • 8430 Posts

Washington Post

Representative Ilhan Omar (D-Minn.) is one of two of the first Muslim women elected to Congress as well as the first refugee from Somalia to be elected to Congress. Since being elected, she has been very outspoken on her opposition to the support many politicians have for Israel, and has been accused of being anti-Semitic. She already had to apologize for past remarks twice within a three week period.

Her feelings about Israel were expressed long before she entered Congress; a tweet she recently deleted after the recent controversy started accused Israel of “hypnotizing the world.” As we all know, the Internet is forever.

So far, she has received criticism on both sides of the aisle. There have even been calls to remove her from the House Foreign Affairs Committee over her past remarks. One of the arguments for removing her was that she would be privy to classified information that could be used against Israel in her position.

She has also been defended by many outside of Congress to include a few celebrities that either said she was right or excused her remarks by stating that the president has said worse. The main argument is that criticizing Israel does not equal being anti-Semitic. Her defenders within Congress are demanding that they back off on a resolution condemning anti-Semitic remarks, even though the resolution apparently doesn’t specifically name Omar.

A few have gone as far as to suggest the criticism of her remarks are just to cover up Islamophobia over a female Muslim being in Congress. While it is true that some people against her may be against Muslims, and there was an offensive poster displayed in West Virginia last weekend that attempted to link her election to the idea that we "forgot" 9/11, that doesn’t necessarily mean all of the criticism focused at her is based on her religion.

What do you think, is this situation overblown or should they address the current controversy? Does this have the potential to hurt Democrats or help the GOP during next year's elections?

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Zaryia

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#2  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts

It's overblown. Criticizing Israel is not antisemitism.

I can't believe the 9/11 poster isn't getting more attention, or people calling for a Islamophobia GOP resolution....

This is honestly surreal.

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Jacanuk

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#3 Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 20281 Posts

@ad1x2: Hmm, who cares what a few outsides of Congress think? the so-called Hollywood non-elites are ordinary people who just happened to have been lucky and earn a few million on a big screen. So what they think is not really important.

As to the last criticism, the response to that is easy, Did she say anti-semitic remarks .....yes? well, then it´s clearly not because she is a Muslim.

But I don´t think this has gone overboard, I think there needs to be done a lot more especially when she is privy to Intel on a close ally which she is a huge opponent of and we know how the far-left has it with privacy

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comp_atkins

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#4 comp_atkins
Member since 2005 • 38691 Posts

Ilhan Omar is doing it all wrong.

she's not anti-isreal. she just wants american politicians to put america first.

you'd think the right would be in support of that...

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mattbbpl

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#5 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 23058 Posts

I'm not up to speed on this controversy. What did she say that was antisemitic?

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ad1x2

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#6 ad1x2
Member since 2005 • 8430 Posts

@mattbbpl said:

I'm not up to speed on this controversy. What did she say that was antisemitic?

The quotes that people said were anti-Semitic are on her Twitter (except for the one I linked to a screenshot since she deleted it) and in the linked articles. Whether or not you think the quotes actually were anti-Semitic is something you can decide on your own.

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#7 comp_atkins
Member since 2005 • 38691 Posts
@ad1x2 said:
@mattbbpl said:

I'm not up to speed on this controversy. What did she say that was antisemitic?

The quotes that people said were anti-Semitic are on her Twitter (except for the one I linked to a screenshot since she deleted it) and in the linked articles. Whether or not you think the quotes actually were anti-Semitic is something you can decide on your own.

who gets to decide if a comment is actually anti-semitic?

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Jacanuk

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#8 Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 20281 Posts
@ad1x2 said:
@mattbbpl said:

I'm not up to speed on this controversy. What did she say that was antisemitic?

The quotes that people said were anti-Semitic are on her Twitter (except for the one I linked to a screenshot since she deleted it) and in the linked articles. Whether or not you think the quotes actually were anti-Semitic is something you can decide on your own.

Don´t forget that she is also the first official US Congress member who publically have backed the BDS anti-sematic movement (which is known to a house for very anti-semitic groups on the left.)

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#9 mattbbpl
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@ad1x2 said:
@mattbbpl said:

I'm not up to speed on this controversy. What did she say that was antisemitic?

The quotes that people said were anti-Semitic are on her Twitter (except for the one I linked to a screenshot since she deleted it) and in the linked articles. Whether or not you think the quotes actually were anti-Semitic is something you can decide on your own.

There are a lot of links in your OP, some of which I can't access. I've read those I can that look relevant contextually, and I'm not seeing much. I'm asking for you to point them out so that A) I have access to all the information you want us to have access to for this topic and B) I know what you're referring to. I don't think that's unreasonable.

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mandzilla

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#10 mandzilla  Moderator
Member since 2017 • 4686 Posts

@Jacanuk: BDS is anti-Semitic?

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#11 Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 20281 Posts
@mandzilla said:

@Jacanuk: BDS is anti-Semitic?

Yes, very much so

But you disagree I take it?

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#12 judaspete
Member since 2005 • 7356 Posts

Her tweets are directed at Israel, but one could argue that it's a euphemism for "The Jews" if they found her saying something to give it that kind of context. So far I haven't seen it.

Anyway, there is a longstanding bipartisan support of Israel in Washington, even in situations where they get heavy handed. I think one person calling this into question on the Foreign Affairs Council is a good thing ultimately.

And to leave with some whataboutism, I think anyone who supported Trump when he had Steve Bannon around should at the very least show some nuance in their criticism of Omar. Also, Israel gets a lot of foreign aid from the US, and Trump is usually against that sort of thing.

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mrbojangles25

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#13  Edited By mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 58509 Posts

Good.

It's about time we took Israel to task; they've been abusing their position as the West's mid-east goon for too long. And it's nice to know we have some politicians willing to do so. Though admittedly it probably would have been better coming from a non-Muslim, non-person-of-color but, in an ideal world, that would not matter either.

Shame on Pelosi as well. Democrats need to fight together instead of passively giving mouth service to their ideals while being corporate tools like everyone else.

I am enjoying this new generation of democrats so far, hope they keep fighting the good fight.

@zaryia said:

It's overblown. Criticizing Israel is not antisemitism.

I can't believe the 9/11 poster isn't getting more attention, or people calling for a Islamophobia GOP resolution....

This is honestly surreal.

Yeah, pretty crazy. Makes you realize how far we still have to go. Also, need to realize two things:

1. Israel is not really the victim any more. Yes, they can be a target of hate, but they don't own sole exclusivity to being the victims of slavery, persecution, or genocide.

2. The US still demonizes non-white, non-Christian people. The poster of Omar is only the latest offense; she receives death threats in her home town and more.

@comp_atkins said:
@ad1x2 said:
@mattbbpl said:

I'm not up to speed on this controversy. What did she say that was antisemitic?

The quotes that people said were anti-Semitic are on her Twitter (except for the one I linked to a screenshot since she deleted it) and in the linked articles. Whether or not you think the quotes actually were anti-Semitic is something you can decide on your own.

who gets to decide if a comment is actually anti-semitic?

People who would benefit from the person being declared anti-semitic :P

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Sevenizz

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#14 Sevenizz
Member since 2010 • 6462 Posts

Wait, there’s a debate as to whether or not a muslim is anti semetic? Especially with her criticism of Israel?

Good lord you can’t be this naive.

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Jacanuk

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#15 Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 20281 Posts

@mrbojangles25: So let me see if I understand this correctly.

You are angry with Trump when he talks bad about our close allies and angry because we should be global and value our allies, but one of the probably most important allies against the growing extremist threat groups like ISIS pose, you want us to cut ties with and not just that, boycott, disinvest and place heavy sanctions on, which will most likely cause more to be killed in Israel?

Can you come to terms with the doubles in this or did I simply misunderstand you.

And I don´t want to make this about who is right in the whole Israel-Palestine conflict, but you need to remember that Israel has been through horrible terrorist acts from groups like Hamas.

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#16 ad1x2
Member since 2005 • 8430 Posts

@mattbbpl said:
@ad1x2 said:
@mattbbpl said:

I'm not up to speed on this controversy. What did she say that was antisemitic?

The quotes that people said were anti-Semitic are on her Twitter (except for the one I linked to a screenshot since she deleted it) and in the linked articles. Whether or not you think the quotes actually were anti-Semitic is something you can decide on your own.

There are a lot of links in your OP, some of which I can't access. I've read those I can that look relevant contextually, and I'm not seeing much. I'm asking for you to point them out so that A) I have access to all the information you want us to have access to for this topic and B) I know what you're referring to. I don't think that's unreasonable.

The links are from the Washinton Post, USA Today (for poster linking her to 9/11), and Brietbart (for tweets of support from celebrities) and the two Washington Post links cover some of the things she is accused of. I said you can decide on your own if they are anti-Semitic or not because some people may say that they are and others may simply say that her criticisms are valid. There are many Democrats that have called her out, to include Chelsea Clinton, so it isn't just a MAGA-led rebuke of her.

I'm on my phone now, so linking the actual tweets in question would take a little longer than I would like at this time, but maybe another poster may want to jump in if you don't want to wait until I get back home in a few hours.

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#17 deactivated-5e9044657a310
Member since 2005 • 8136 Posts

Israel is a terrorist state.

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#18  Edited By mandzilla  Moderator
Member since 2017 • 4686 Posts

@Jacanuk: BDS is a worldwide campaign, and a multitude of groups fall under its umbrella. For sure there are anti-Semitic elements within the movement, and I certainly don't agree with all of the methods employed.

On the other hand, I don't view measures taken such as labelling products made in settlements within illegally occupied territory (illegal under international law) as being in any way anti-Semitic.

Criticism of Israel =/= anti-Semitism. There are many Jews within the BDS movement.

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#19 Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 20281 Posts
@mandzilla said:

@Jacanuk: BDS is a worldwide campaign, and a multitude of groups fall under its umbrella. For sure there are anti-Semitic elements within the movement, and I certainly don't agree with all of the methods employed.

On the other hand, I don't view measures taken such as labelling products made in settlements within illegally occupied territory (illegal under international law) as being in any way anti-Semitic.

Criticism of Israel =/= anti-Semism. There are many Jews within the BDS movement.

Yes, I know BDS is a worldwide campaign but that does not mean it can´t be anti-semitic which is the very reason why a lot are moving against it.

After all, it´s not for fun even Trudeau has been out and condemn it and call it an anti-semitic group against Canadian values. So let´s not pretend it´s suddenly not anti-semitic because we are now in the pigsty that is American politics.

With that said we can agree that critisemen against Israel is not equal to being anti-semitic but wanting it destroyed or wanting to cause death and harm to Jews are very anti-semitic because again, let´s not pretend that we will ever come to a place where Israel will not exist and that the best solution anyone can work towards is a two-state. And also that Israel is not out and the west biggest and most important ally in the middle-east in a time where we are faced with a massive threat from extremists group.

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#20  Edited By deactivated-5de67c4d9cb12
Member since 2019 • 392 Posts

I'm not detecting much genuine anti-semitism surrounding this story but I'm picking up a lot of islamophobia....

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Zaryia

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#21  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts

Just look at how big of a ruckus this minor and supposed anti-Semitic remark (lol not really) was, yet actual racist comments "Go back to Puerto Rico!" died within 24 hours.

I guess Democrats are held to a higher standard?

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#22 THUMPTABLE
Member since 2003 • 2361 Posts

@Jacanuk said:

@mrbojangles25: So let me see if I understand this correctly.

You are angry with Trump when he talks bad about our close allies and angry because we should be global and value our allies, but one of the probably most important allies against the growing extremist threat groups like ISIS pose, you want us to cut ties with and not just that, boycott, disinvest and place heavy sanctions on, which will most likely cause more to be killed in Israel?

Can you come to terms with the doubles in this or did I simply misunderstand you.

And I don´t want to make this about who is right in the whole Israel-Palestine conflict, but you need to remember that Israel has been through horrible terrorist acts from groups like Hamas.

Israel is very good at stealing land though.

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deactivated-6068afec1b77d

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#23 deactivated-6068afec1b77d
Member since 2017 • 2539 Posts

Is this what Congress was discussing for whole three weeks? Oh, I though it was less than like 1 or 2 weeks. I never knew Congress was doing this for three weeks and going.

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#24 sakaiXx
Member since 2013 • 16019 Posts

Criticizing Israel is not Anti Semitic. We criticize Iran and North Korea all the time doesn't meant we are anti Persian (or whatever group Iran belongs to) or anti Korean.

Do am worried about the potential secrets leaking out.

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#25 ad1x2
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@zaryia said:

Just look at how big of a ruckus this minor and supposed anti-Semitic remark (lol not really) was, yet actual racist comments "Go back to Puerto Rico!" died within 24 hours.

I guess Democrats are held to a higher standard?

The comment was made a few days after 39 Democrats went to Puerto Rico for a trip that included briefings on the aftereffects of Hurricane Maria, time on the beach, and a showing of Hamilton.

There’s a good chance it was in reference to that, and if you want people to assume that Omar‘s remarks have nothing to do with being anti-Semitic it wouldn’t hurt to assume the Puerto Rico remark had nothing to do with them trying to insult someone for being Latino.

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#26 HoolaHoopMan
Member since 2009 • 14724 Posts

Do Congressman pledge support to foreign countries normally? Not in a specific 'manner' on an issue base, but in general?

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#27 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 23058 Posts

@ad1x2: If you're back, I wouldn't mind references to the quotes you're referring to and why you think they're antisemitic. All I found earlier were references to using the phrase, "All about the Benjamins" in reference to AIPAC and and saying “Israel has hypnotised the world, may Allah awaken the people and help them see the evil doings of Israel.” What am I missing?

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ad1x2

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#28 ad1x2
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@mattbbpl said:

@ad1x2: If you're back, I wouldn't mind references to the quotes you're referring to and why you think they're antisemitic. All I found earlier were references to using the phrase, "All about the Benjamins" in reference to AIPAC and and saying “Israel has hypnotised the world, may Allah awaken the people and help them see the evil doings of Israel.” What am I missing?

This video from the New York Times may better describe the accusations than I can. In the video she is condemned by some Democrats as well.

I’m not saying she is anti-Sematic, since I don’t know what her true intentions are besides calling out what she sees as bribery, but I am not exonerating her either.

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deactivated-5f3ec00254b0d

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#29  Edited By deactivated-5f3ec00254b0d
Member since 2009 • 6278 Posts

Just like here in the UK, unless you're 100% pro Israel you are anti-Semitic.

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#30 SUD123456
Member since 2007 • 6965 Posts

I do not know much about this; however I did look at some of the links including 3 examples of comments separated by time and space.

I think any and all of the examples of comments could be simply a poor choice of words. So when it happened the first time I think you get a pass. The second time I think you are a slow learner. The third time I think you are a moron or maybe you are something else. And beyond, I think it is quite probable that you are indeed something else.

It isn't any comment, but the pattern that makes me question the innocence of the remarks.

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#31 rmpumper
Member since 2016 • 2150 Posts

@Sevenizz: You know that a lot of the middle easter muslim nations are semitic as well, right? Or does your islamophobia prevents that fact to register in your maga head?

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Zaryia

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#32  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts
@ad1x2 said:
@zaryia said:

Just look at how big of a ruckus this minor and supposed anti-Semitic remark (lol not really) was, yet actual racist comments "Go back to Puerto Rico!" died within 24 hours.

I guess Democrats are held to a higher standard?

The comment was made a few days after 39 Democrats went to Puerto Rico for a trip that included briefings on the aftereffects of Hurricane Maria, time on the beach, and a showing of Hamilton.

There’s a good chance it was in reference to that, and if you want people to assume that Omar‘s remarks have nothing to do with being anti-Semitic it wouldn’t hurt to assume the Puerto Rico remark had nothing to do with them trying to insult someone for being Latino.

Yes, I consider the "Go back to Puerto Rico!" comment to be much much worse.

This is completely blown out of proportion compared to the shit the right says.

But 23 Republicans just made fools of themselves for voting against the revised Resolution which now includes groups they hate.

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Zaryia

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#33 Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts
@SUD123456 said:

I do not know much about this; however I did look at some of the links including 3 examples of comments separated by time and space.

I think any and all of the examples of comments could be simply a poor choice of words. So when it happened the first time I think you get a pass. The second time I think you are a slow learner. The third time I think you are a moron or maybe you are something else. And beyond, I think it is quite probable that you are indeed something else.

It isn't any comment, but the pattern that makes me question the innocence of the remarks.

Nothing wrong with being anti-Israel.

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#34 SUD123456
Member since 2007 • 6965 Posts

@zaryia said:
@SUD123456 said:

I do not know much about this; however I did look at some of the links including 3 examples of comments separated by time and space.

I think any and all of the examples of comments could be simply a poor choice of words. So when it happened the first time I think you get a pass. The second time I think you are a slow learner. The third time I think you are a moron or maybe you are something else. And beyond, I think it is quite probable that you are indeed something else.

It isn't any comment, but the pattern that makes me question the innocence of the remarks.

Nothing wrong with being anti-Israel.

I never said there was....indeed I have been quite critical of various Israeli gov't actions over the years.

But she isn't apologizing for being critical of Israel. She is apologizing for the specific choice of words she has used. It is like going up to an indigenous person and saying: Hey Chief, I think your actions suck. It isn't the critique of the action that is relevant. And she appears to make that same 'mistake' fairly often which is particularly interesting for a politician.

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#35 Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 23995 Posts

BDS is not anti-semitic nor is being critical of israel.

Being critical of Israel is as antisemitic as being critical of Saudi Arabia or Iran is Islamophobic.

I know lots of Jews who are critical of Israel and I know a lot of muslims who despise Saudi Arabia and Iran.

@Sevenizz said:

Wait, there’s a debate as to whether or not a muslim is anti semetic? Especially with her criticism of Israel?

Good lord you can’t be this naive.

This quote however is ripe with bigotry.

@Jacanuk said:

@mrbojangles25: So let me see if I understand this correctly.

You are angry with Trump when he talks bad about our close allies and angry because we should be global and value our allies, but one of the probably most important allies against the growing extremist threat groups like ISIS pose, you want us to cut ties with and not just that, boycott, disinvest and place heavy sanctions on, which will most likely cause more to be killed in Israel?

Can you come to terms with the doubles in this or did I simply misunderstand you.

And I don´t want to make this about who is right in the whole Israel-Palestine conflict, but you need to remember that Israel has been through horrible terrorist acts from groups like Hamas.

Israel is not a strong ally in the fight against ISIS. In fact, much like the US involvement, it often makes the issue worse. Israel, much like the US, are backing the Sunnis more often than not in the fight against Shias.

And Shias are NOT the ones involved in ISIS and Al Qaeda.

If either the US or Israel were actually serious about fighting ISIS, they would oppose the actual nr.1 sponsor of terrorism: Saudi Arabia.

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#36 Sevenizz
Member since 2010 • 6462 Posts

@Maroxad: ‘I know a lot of muslims who despise Saudi Arabia and Iran.’

Yea, they’re called non muslims. You can’t be anti Saudi Arabia - the home of Mecca - and be considered a muslim.

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Maroxad

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#37 Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 23995 Posts

@Sevenizz said:

@Maroxad: ‘I know a lot of muslims who despise Saudi Arabia and Iran.’

Yea, they’re called non muslims. You can’t be anti Saudi Arabia - the home of Mecca - and be considered a muslim.

Holy crap... I am calling Poe's law on this. Black and white thinking and no true scotsman.

Saudi Arabia has been called out by both Sunni and Shia leaders. Especially due to their ongoing genocide in Yemen. And then there are the tensions between Iran and Saudi Arabia. Sunni vs Shia in general.

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#38 deactivated-610a70a317506
Member since 2017 • 658 Posts

Someone needs to buy this Omar woman a better hair dryer. She can't seem to ever get her hair dry and is always walking around with her turby twister wrapped around her head.

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#39 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178874 Posts

I haven't paid much attention to this. That said it wouldn't surprise me with the problems inherent in that region that there is an ulterior motive on her part. And since I consider trump's comments against allies to be a problem.......hers would be the same.

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ad1x2

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#40  Edited By ad1x2
Member since 2005 • 8430 Posts

@zaryia said:
@ad1x2 said:
@zaryia said:

Just look at how big of a ruckus this minor and supposed anti-Semitic remark (lol not really) was, yet actual racist comments "Go back to Puerto Rico!" died within 24 hours.

I guess Democrats are held to a higher standard?

The comment was made a few days after 39 Democrats went to Puerto Rico for a trip that included briefings on the aftereffects of Hurricane Maria, time on the beach, and a showing of Hamilton.

There’s a good chance it was in reference to that, and if you want people to assume that Omar‘s remarks have nothing to do with being anti-Semitic it wouldn’t hurt to assume the Puerto Rico remark had nothing to do with them trying to insult someone for being Latino.

Yes, I consider the "Go back to Puerto Rico!" comment to be much much worse.

This is completely blown out of proportion compared to the shit the right says.

But 23 Republicans just made fools of themselves for voting against the revised Resolution which now includes groups they hate.

If a Democrat said that to Ted Cruz or any other Hispanic GOP politician after they returned from Puerto Rico you wouldn't have considered it racist. Trying to make his statement about Puerto Rico out as an racist attack is why it's getting harder to take some of you guys seriously.

By the way, I'm not surprised they voted no. They probably did it as a protest vote because the Democrats chickened out and removed all language from the bill that would have implied it was in response to Omar's remarks. The resolution to disapprove Steve King's racist remarks passed with only one no vote - Democrat Bobby Rush who voted no because he wanted him censured instead. Going by your logic, should I assume he voted no because he approved of King's racist remarks?

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Zaryia

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#41  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts
@ad1x2 said:

If a Democrat said that to Ted Cruz or any other Hispanic GOP politician after they returned from Puerto Rico you wouldn't have considered it racist. T

Lmao yes I would. It was so blatant - or at the very least anyone of Puerto Rican descent in that room who heard the sentence were highly offended. As would anyone.

I do know the congressman was forced to apologize, but was there a resolution after that?

@ad1x2 said:

By the way, I'm not surprised they voted no. They probably did it as a protest vote because the Democrats chickened out and removed all language from the bill that would have implied it was in response to Omar's remarks. The resolution to disapprove Steve King's racist remarks passed with only one no vote - Democrat Bobby Rush who voted no because he wanted him censured instead. Going by your logic, should I assume he voted no because he approved of King's racist remarks?

Steven King's far more frequent and direct race based statements through the years have been exponentially worse than Omar's criticism of the Israel Lobby. It isn't even comparable. While I completely understand how Omar's first vague statements could be seen as insensitive due to being cheeky, it wasn't the straight up racist white supremacist talking points like Steve King. C'mon now.

Also the GOP have regularly insinuated worse things with Soros and other Jews (conspiracies), yet I do not recall any resolutions. The Tree of Life Jewish Massacre was in part fueled due to these right wing anti-jew conspiracies which the GOP continued to spout right after/before that event! And even Trump himself has said/tweeted worse.

This is a farce. Those 23 Republicans look stupid as shit.

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#42  Edited By micky4889
Member since 2006 • 2668 Posts

You can openly criticise any country in the US but God forbid if someone says anything that puts Israel in a bad light lol

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Jacanuk

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#43 Jacanuk
Member since 2011 • 20281 Posts
@Maroxad said:

BDS is not anti-semitic nor is being critical of israel.

Being critical of Israel is as antisemitic as being critical of Saudi Arabia or Iran is Islamophobic.

I know lots of Jews who are critical of Israel and I know a lot of muslims who despise Saudi Arabia and Iran.

Israel is not a strong ally in the fight against ISIS. In fact, much like the US involvement, it often makes the issue worse. Israel, much like the US, are backing the Sunnis more often than not in the fight against Shias.

And Shias are NOT the ones involved in ISIS and Al Qaeda.

If either the US or Israel were actually serious about fighting ISIS, they would oppose the actual nr.1 sponsor of terrorism: Saudi Arabia.

BDS is most certainly an Anti-sematic group.

They have also been behind a rising tension of anti-Israel/jew atmosphere on a lot of liberal universities where Jews are being targetted for harassment or anyone pro-Israel.

And sure you know a lot of Jews who may be critical, but being critical is not the same as wanting Israel gone, and all Jews to live under a Palanstian rule or move away.

Also, I said groups and currently in the middle-east, the west have one ally and that is Israel.

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#44  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts
@Jacanuk said:
@Maroxad said:

BDS is not anti-semitic nor is being critical of israel.

Being critical of Israel is as antisemitic as being critical of Saudi Arabia or Iran is Islamophobic.

I know lots of Jews who are critical of Israel and I know a lot of muslims who despise Saudi Arabia and Iran.

Israel is not a strong ally in the fight against ISIS. In fact, much like the US involvement, it often makes the issue worse. Israel, much like the US, are backing the Sunnis more often than not in the fight against Shias.

And Shias are NOT the ones involved in ISIS and Al Qaeda.

If either the US or Israel were actually serious about fighting ISIS, they would oppose the actual nr.1 sponsor of terrorism: Saudi Arabia.

BDS is most certainly an Anti-sematic group.

They have also been behind a rising tension of anti-Israel/jew atmosphere on a lot of liberal universities where Jews are being targetted for harassment or anyone pro-Israel.

And sure you know a lot of Jews who may be critical, but being critical is not the same as wanting Israel gone, and all Jews to live under a Palanstian rule or move away.

Also, I said groups and currently in the middle-east, the west have one ally and that is Israel.

This is disgusting,

According to The Intercept, the language of the anti-BDS bill is so sweeping that even victims of last year’s Hurricane Harvey were told they had to pledge not to boycott Israel in order to receive disaster relief.

Texas speech pathologist loses job for refusing to sign pro-Israel pledge

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#45 N64DD
Member since 2015 • 13167 Posts

@zaryia said:
@Jacanuk said:
@Maroxad said:

BDS is not anti-semitic nor is being critical of israel.

Being critical of Israel is as antisemitic as being critical of Saudi Arabia or Iran is Islamophobic.

I know lots of Jews who are critical of Israel and I know a lot of muslims who despise Saudi Arabia and Iran.

Israel is not a strong ally in the fight against ISIS. In fact, much like the US involvement, it often makes the issue worse. Israel, much like the US, are backing the Sunnis more often than not in the fight against Shias.

And Shias are NOT the ones involved in ISIS and Al Qaeda.

If either the US or Israel were actually serious about fighting ISIS, they would oppose the actual nr.1 sponsor of terrorism: Saudi Arabia.

BDS is most certainly an Anti-sematic group.

They have also been behind a rising tension of anti-Israel/jew atmosphere on a lot of liberal universities where Jews are being targetted for harassment or anyone pro-Israel.

And sure you know a lot of Jews who may be critical, but being critical is not the same as wanting Israel gone, and all Jews to live under a Palanstian rule or move away.

Also, I said groups and currently in the middle-east, the west have one ally and that is Israel.

This is disgusting,

According to The Intercept, the language of the anti-BDS bill is so sweeping that even victims of last year’s Hurricane Harvey were told they had to pledge not to boycott Israel in order to receive disaster relief.

Texas speech pathologist loses job for refusing to sign pro-Israel pledge

Incorrect.

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Zaryia

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#46  Edited By Zaryia
Member since 2016 • 21607 Posts
@n64dd said:

This is disgusting,

According to The Intercept, the language of the anti-BDS bill is so sweeping that even victims of last year’s Hurricane Harvey were told they had to pledge not to boycott Israel in order to receive disaster relief.

Texas speech pathologist loses job for refusing to sign pro-Israel pledge

Incorrect.

Citation?

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deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51

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#47 deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51
Member since 2004 • 57548 Posts

I'm not sure of her exact quote or intent. But I don't think saying that "some politicians want you to pledge allegiance to a foreign nation" is anti-semitic by its nature. Not showing unilateral support for Israel is not being antisemitic in my opinion. I support Israel's right to exist. I also support a two state solution and believe that Palestinians do suffer from significant injustices. It's a complex situation. But I've always been hesistant for the US, my country, to proclaim it's undying support for Israel. I remember Hillary Clinton giving a speech and mentioning how important things like healthcare, economy, and support for Israel are. I always thought it was odd that a US politician would have support of a foreign nation as one of their top priorities as opposed to their own nation's well being. I think it's important for us to help and support our allies, but I don't like seeing some politicians make pledges like that.

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#48 N64DD
Member since 2015 • 13167 Posts

@zaryia said:
@n64dd said:

This is disgusting,

According to The Intercept, the language of the anti-BDS bill is so sweeping that even victims of last year’s Hurricane Harvey were told they had to pledge not to boycott Israel in order to receive disaster relief.

Texas speech pathologist loses job for refusing to sign pro-Israel pledge

Incorrect.

Citation?

I don't need citation to disagree with something. This isn't a college course brah.

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#49 mandzilla  Moderator
Member since 2017 • 4686 Posts
@Jacanuk said:
@mandzilla said:

@Jacanuk: BDS is a worldwide campaign, and a multitude of groups fall under its umbrella. For sure there are anti-Semitic elements within the movement, and I certainly don't agree with all of the methods employed.

On the other hand, I don't view measures taken such as labelling products made in settlements within illegally occupied territory (illegal under international law) as being in any way anti-Semitic.

Criticism of Israel =/= anti-Semism. There are many Jews within the BDS movement.

Yes, I know BDS is a worldwide campaign but that does not mean it can´t be anti-semitic which is the very reason why a lot are moving against it.

After all, it´s not for fun even Trudeau has been out and condemn it and call it an anti-semitic group against Canadian values. So let´s not pretend it´s suddenly not anti-semitic because we are now in the pigsty that is American politics.

With that said we can agree that critisemen against Israel is not equal to being anti-semitic but wanting it destroyed or wanting to cause death and harm to Jews are very anti-semitic because again, let´s not pretend that we will ever come to a place where Israel will not exist and that the best solution anyone can work towards is a two-state. And also that Israel is not out and the west biggest and most important ally in the middle-east in a time where we are faced with a massive threat from extremists group.

There is a lot of opposition to BDS, you're right. Like I said, I don't support everything the movement does. Still don't view it as inherently anti-Semitic either though.

Well hey, it is good to agree on something at least then lol. And yes of course wishing to make Israel disappear is anti-Semitic, I certainly don't want Israel to not exist anyway. They deserve a country of their own and so does Palestine.

Anyway, the reason you're seeing movements like BDS these days is because the USA is not viewed as an honest broker of peace anymore in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and along with Israel have been undermining the future prospects of a workable two-state solution. Hence the external pressure mounting in an effort to resolve it.

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#50 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 23058 Posts

@mandzilla: "Anyway, the reason you're seeing movements like BDS these days is because the USA is not viewed as an honest broker of peace anymore in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict"

Yeah, that's apt. Well said.