Zelda combat system is very 1998. Will it finally improve by 2030?

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#101  Edited By Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 23958 Posts
@hardwenzen said:

BG3, just like ER, offers so much built potential that its impossible to balance, so don't even try to compare these two to simpleton games like totk. And as someone who has spent an unhealthy amount of time on BG3, making sure to not follow any kind of team comp that makes the game easy, while also not using the rest system, the game was challenging, and not as easy as Divinity 2 after first half of the second act, or Divinity 1 straight up after the first act.

If you consider Zelda's combat system as Perfect, you might want to try this game. On a side note, your gpu will handle it as well, so you're lucky.

I don't consider Zelda's combat system perfect. I literally said as much in the post you replied to. But it does what it sets out to do and achieves those goals.

The skill ceiling is SIGNIFICANTLY higher in TOTK than it is in BG3 and Elden Ring. But this isn't really anything to brag about. RPGs tend to have fairly low skill ceilings. Hence why there are only a handful of them that even are competitive. The skill difference between someone like me, and a high level player is significantly higher in TOTK than it is in ER.

BG3 was one of the easiest games I have ever played, the only difficult part was not doing a Long Rest irl whenever I played it.

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#102  Edited By hardwenzen  Online
Member since 2005 • 39421 Posts
@Maroxad said:
@hardwenzen said:

BG3, just like ER, offers so much built potential that its impossible to balance, so don't even try to compare these two to simpleton games like totk. And as someone who has spent an unhealthy amount of time on BG3, making sure to not follow any kind of team comp that makes the game easy, while also not using the rest system, the game was challenging, and not as easy as Divinity 2 after first half of the second act, or Divinity 1 straight up after the first act.

If you consider Zelda's combat system as Perfect, you might want to try this game. On a side note, your gpu will handle it as well, so you're lucky.

I don't consider Zelda's combat system perfect. I literally said as much in the post you replied to. But it does what it sets out to do and achieves those goals.

The skill ceiling is SIGNIFICANTLY higher in TOTK than it is in BG3 and Elden Ring. But this isn't really anything to brag about. RPGs tend to have fairly low skill ceilings. Hence why there are only a handful of them that even are competitive.

BG3 was one of the easiest games I have ever played, the only difficult part was not doing a Long Rest irl whenever I played it.

You gotta be high to put ER skill ceilling (or any fromsoft titles for that matter) anywhere near a mobile adventure game that is totk. There is no skill ceilling at all. All you have going for you is learning a cheese strat, do a compilation of cheese, and post it on tiktok for views (exactly the kind of videos you posted above).

And while we're at it, let me remind you of how dogwater the healing system is in totk/botw. Its the absolute worst kind of healing system that is a pace destroyer, and because Nintendo is a very slow learner of a company, they thought its perfectly find to simply transfer what's in botw to tok and call it a day. If i were you, i'd want Fromsoft to remaster totk. Only then will we see its full potential.

And BG3 isn't about a skill ceilling you noob. BG3 is all about knowledge, and deep rpg mechanics that you don't see nowadays (and when you do, its in low budget indie games developed in a basement). You're also annoyed as hell because the game stole the shit outta totk's goty, so all you're doing when mentioning BG3, is troll it like you did with ER lol. Not my fault these two games are trigging you, Maroxad.

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#103  Edited By Maroxad
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@hardwenzen said:

You gotta be high to put ER skill ceilling (or any fromsoft titles for that matter) anywhere near a mobile adventure game that is totk. There is no skill ceilling at all. All you have going for you is learning a cheese strat, do a compilation of cheese, and post it on tiktok for views (exactly the kind of videos you posted above).

And while we're at it, let me remind you of how dogwater the healing system is in totk/botw. Its the absolute worst kind of healing system that is a pace destroyer, and because Nintendo is a very slow learner of a company, they thought its perfectly find to simply transfer what's in botw to tok and call it a day. If i were you, i'd want Fromsoft to remaster totk. Only then will we see its full potential.

And BG3 isn't about a skill ceilling you noob. BG3 is all about knowledge, and deep rpg mechanics that you don't see nowadays (and when you do, its in low budget indie games developed in a basement). You're also annoyed as hell because the game stole the shit outta totk's goty, so all you're doing when mentioning BG3, is troll it like you did with ER lol. Not my fault these two games are trigging you, Maroxad.

In TOTK the difference between a high level player and me is SIGNIFICANTLY higher than it is Elden Ring. The power builds are, as I have repeatedly said, really expensive and thus impractical. Something you would have known if you had actually played the game.

Executing high level combat techniques in Zelda is also significantly harder, requiring far more spatial awareness, stronger timing and precision. Part of this is because the environments in Zelda are not necessarily static like they are in Elden Ring. Another reason is that there is simply put a lot more interaction in Zelda.

Bruh, BG3's RPG mechanics are really shallow. 5e is extremely simplistic compared to 4e or 3.5e (although this is a good thing), let alone pathfinder. But the mediocre gameplay of BG3 is fine. The game's strengths is in its narrative and presentation, which it runs circles around Zelda. Tthe fact that you are calling the RPG mechancis deep show just how few RPGs you have even played. But then again, if you mostly play FromSoft games, I am not surprised. You are completely clueless about what RPGs even exist.

No one is defending the healing system of Zelda: BotW and TotK. Its bad.

All in all, you need to play more games. And stop buying obvious duds like Diablo 4. All in all, Zelda does what it aims to and achieves it competently. It isnt my favorite combat system. That would be Tekken. And outside fighting games there are games like Ninja Gaiden and God Hand which still remain kings in the genre. If we are looking at pure swordfighting there is Mount and Blade, Chivalry and Kingdom Come. Zelda is outdone by a lot of games, as far as my preferences go. But Zelda nonetheless achieves what it sets out to do. And that deserves to be commended.

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#104 hardwenzen  Online
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@Maroxad said:
@hardwenzen said:

You gotta be high to put ER skill ceilling (or any fromsoft titles for that matter) anywhere near a mobile adventure game that is totk. There is no skill ceilling at all. All you have going for you is learning a cheese strat, do a compilation of cheese, and post it on tiktok for views (exactly the kind of videos you posted above).

And while we're at it, let me remind you of how dogwater the healing system is in totk/botw. Its the absolute worst kind of healing system that is a pace destroyer, and because Nintendo is a very slow learner of a company, they thought its perfectly find to simply transfer what's in botw to tok and call it a day. If i were you, i'd want Fromsoft to remaster totk. Only then will we see its full potential.

And BG3 isn't about a skill ceilling you noob. BG3 is all about knowledge, and deep rpg mechanics that you don't see nowadays (and when you do, its in low budget indie games developed in a basement). You're also annoyed as hell because the game stole the shit outta totk's goty, so all you're doing when mentioning BG3, is troll it like you did with ER lol. Not my fault these two games are trigging you, Maroxad.

In TOTK the difference between a high level player and me is SIGNIFICANTLY higher than it is Elden Ring. The power builds are, as I have repeatedly said, really expensive and thus impractical. Something you would have known if you had actually played the game.

Executing high level combat techniques in Zelda is also significantly harder, requiring far more spatial awareness, stronger timing and precision. Part of this is because the environments in Zelda are not necessarily static like they are in Elden Ring. Another reason is that there is simply put a lot more interaction in Zelda.

Bruh, BG3's RPG mechanics are really shallow. 5e is extremely simplistic compared to 4e or 3.5e (although this is a good thing), let alone pathfinder. But the mediocre gameplay of BG3 is fine. The game's strengths is in its narrative and presentation, which it runs circles around Zelda. Tthe fact that you are calling the RPG mechancis deep show just how few RPGs you have even played. But then again, if you mostly play FromSoft games, I am not surprised. You are completely clueless about what RPGs even exist.

No one is defending the healing system of Zelda: BotW and TotK. Its bad.

All in all, you need to play more games. And stop buying obvious duds like Diablo 4. All in all, Zelda does what it aims to and achieves it competently. It isnt my favorite combat system. That would be Tekken. And outside fighting games there are games like Ninja Gaiden and God Hand which still remain kings in the genre. If we are looking at pure swordfighting there is Mount and Blade, Chivalry and Kingdom Come. Zelda is outdone by a lot of games, as far as my preferences go. But Zelda nonetheless achieves what it sets out to do. And that deserves to be commended.

Jumping in the air to slow down time and spam explosives is not skill. Its a gimmick that introduces incredibly easy gameplay that even a child can master. Give that same kid Elden Ring, and they wouldn't be able to go past Margott🤷‍♂️Totk, just like botw, is a mobile adventure game, and i would prefer you compare it to other titles in its genre. Be it Genshin Impact or other titles similar to it. Hell, other than i, when was the last time you ever heard anyone even mention Zelda's combat system? Its so bland that people are completely indifferent to it, they just don't care one way or the other. On the Fromsoft side, the whole industry is copying them, and nobody is even capable of achieving what they do.

Your moaning about BG3 doesn't interest me. Its a superior game to totk, won goty last year, and is considered by many as the best rpg ever made. It is what it is.

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#105  Edited By Maroxad
Member since 2007 • 23958 Posts
@hardwenzen said:

Jumping in the air to slow down time and spam explosives is not skill. Its a gimmick that introduces incredibly easy gameplay that even a child can master. Give that same kid Elden Ring, and they wouldn't be able to go past Margott🤷‍♂️Totk, just like botw, is a mobile adventure game, and i would prefer you compare it to other titles in its genre. Be it Genshin Impact or other titles similar to it. Hell, other than i, when was the last time you ever heard anyone even mention Zelda's combat system? Its so bland that people are completely indifferent to it, they just don't care one way or the other. On the Fromsoft side, the whole industry is copying them, and nobody is even capable of achieving what they do.

Your moaning about BG3 doesn't interest me. Its a superior game to totk, won goty last year, and is considered by many as the best rpg ever made. It is what it is.

There is a lot more at play than just slowing down time. Of course, you would have known this if you hadactually played the game.

People are uploading combat montages of TOTK all the time. The combat gets quite a bit of discussion. It is technical enough to satisfy me. And achieves the goal of the game, which is to be the definitive AAA sandbox. The combat of which is a part of that.

I guess you like your themepark games (see Elden Ring). But personally I prefer more sandboxy games like BotW and TOTK.

Edit: And I am not moaning about Baldur's Gate 3. I specifically pointed out where its strengths are. It is a narrative focused game, and it does that part really well. Well enough to deserve GOTY over TOTK. I know you mock the concept of reading novels, but I highly suggest you start reading a few, might be good for your reading comprehension skills.

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#106 hardwenzen  Online
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@Maroxad said:
@hardwenzen said:

Jumping in the air to slow down time and spam explosives is not skill. Its a gimmick that introduces incredibly easy gameplay that even a child can master. Give that same kid Elden Ring, and they wouldn't be able to go past Margott🤷‍♂️Totk, just like botw, is a mobile adventure game, and i would prefer you compare it to other titles in its genre. Be it Genshin Impact or other titles similar to it. Hell, other than i, when was the last time you ever heard anyone even mention Zelda's combat system? Its so bland that people are completely indifferent to it, they just don't care one way or the other. On the Fromsoft side, the whole industry is copying them, and nobody is even capable of achieving what they do.

Your moaning about BG3 doesn't interest me. Its a superior game to totk, won goty last year, and is considered by many as the best rpg ever made. It is what it is.

There is a lot more at play than just slowing down time. Of course, you would have known this if you hadactually played the game.

People are uploading combat montages of TOTK all the time. The combat gets quite a bit of discussion. It is technical enough to satisfy me. And achieves the goal of the game, which is to be the definitive AAA sandbox. The combat of which is a part of that.

I guess you like your themepark games (see Elden Ring). But personally I prefer more sandboxy games like BotW and TOTK.

The core mechanic to abuse is slowing down time. No need to deny it, or play around it, everyone does it, everyone abuses it. Not much is more broken overpowered than being able to slow down time in a video game, and Zelda gives it to you without an internal cooldown😐As i've stated many times, this developer does not care if you abuse their game, and they don't want to spend resources balancing it. Come to think of it, they don't even want to invest resources into creating quality expansions, and if they release a dlc... well, we've all seen their quality in botw🤷‍♂️Fromsoft is on another level, and that's perfectly fine because Nintendo is mainly competing with mobile gaming, not pc/ps/xbox.

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#107 Mesome713
Member since 2019 • 7224 Posts

@hardwenzen said:
@Maroxad said:
@hardwenzen said:

Jumping in the air to slow down time and spam explosives is not skill. Its a gimmick that introduces incredibly easy gameplay that even a child can master. Give that same kid Elden Ring, and they wouldn't be able to go past Margott🤷‍♂️Totk, just like botw, is a mobile adventure game, and i would prefer you compare it to other titles in its genre. Be it Genshin Impact or other titles similar to it. Hell, other than i, when was the last time you ever heard anyone even mention Zelda's combat system? Its so bland that people are completely indifferent to it, they just don't care one way or the other. On the Fromsoft side, the whole industry is copying them, and nobody is even capable of achieving what they do.

Your moaning about BG3 doesn't interest me. Its a superior game to totk, won goty last year, and is considered by many as the best rpg ever made. It is what it is.

There is a lot more at play than just slowing down time. Of course, you would have known this if you hadactually played the game.

People are uploading combat montages of TOTK all the time. The combat gets quite a bit of discussion. It is technical enough to satisfy me. And achieves the goal of the game, which is to be the definitive AAA sandbox. The combat of which is a part of that.

I guess you like your themepark games (see Elden Ring). But personally I prefer more sandboxy games like BotW and TOTK.

The core mechanic to abuse is slowing down time. No need to deny it, or play around it, everyone does it, everyone abuses it. Not much is more broken overpowered than being able to slow down time in a video game, and Zelda gives it to you without an internal cooldown😐As i've stated many times, this developer does not care if you abuse their game, and they don't want to spend resources balancing it. Come to think of it, they don't even want to invest resources into creating quality expansions, and if they release a dlc... well, we've all seen their quality in botw🤷‍♂️Fromsoft is on another level, and that's perfectly fine because Nintendo is mainly competing with mobile gaming, not pc/ps/xbox.

You have no room to take about overpowered build Mr. Elden Ring Blood build. 95% of players spend their time finding the most overpowered build in Fromsoft games cause so many are broken. Ive never played a Fromsoft game that didn't have 5-10 OP broken builds that become the most used in the game. You need to stop watching Youtube to form your opinion of games, Sony don't spoiled y'all with watching gameplay instead of playing.

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#108 hardwenzen  Online
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@mesome713 said:
@hardwenzen said:
@Maroxad said:
@hardwenzen said:

Jumping in the air to slow down time and spam explosives is not skill. Its a gimmick that introduces incredibly easy gameplay that even a child can master. Give that same kid Elden Ring, and they wouldn't be able to go past Margott🤷‍♂️Totk, just like botw, is a mobile adventure game, and i would prefer you compare it to other titles in its genre. Be it Genshin Impact or other titles similar to it. Hell, other than i, when was the last time you ever heard anyone even mention Zelda's combat system? Its so bland that people are completely indifferent to it, they just don't care one way or the other. On the Fromsoft side, the whole industry is copying them, and nobody is even capable of achieving what they do.

Your moaning about BG3 doesn't interest me. Its a superior game to totk, won goty last year, and is considered by many as the best rpg ever made. It is what it is.

There is a lot more at play than just slowing down time. Of course, you would have known this if you hadactually played the game.

People are uploading combat montages of TOTK all the time. The combat gets quite a bit of discussion. It is technical enough to satisfy me. And achieves the goal of the game, which is to be the definitive AAA sandbox. The combat of which is a part of that.

I guess you like your themepark games (see Elden Ring). But personally I prefer more sandboxy games like BotW and TOTK.

The core mechanic to abuse is slowing down time. No need to deny it, or play around it, everyone does it, everyone abuses it. Not much is more broken overpowered than being able to slow down time in a video game, and Zelda gives it to you without an internal cooldown😐As i've stated many times, this developer does not care if you abuse their game, and they don't want to spend resources balancing it. Come to think of it, they don't even want to invest resources into creating quality expansions, and if they release a dlc... well, we've all seen their quality in botw🤷‍♂️Fromsoft is on another level, and that's perfectly fine because Nintendo is mainly competing with mobile gaming, not pc/ps/xbox.

You have no room to take about overpowered build Mr. Elden Ring Blood build. 95% of players spend their time finding the most overpowered build in Fromsoft games cause so many are broken. Ive never played a Fromsoft game that didn't have 5-10 OP broken builds that become the most used in the game. You need to stop watching Youtube to form your opinion of games, Sony don't spoiled y'all with watching gameplay instead of playing.

They nerfed blood builds a century ago, and so was the mimmick nerfed. Ya, a developer that is at least trying to have balance while also offering an insane amount of build diversity, which makes it really difficult to have a blanced game.🤡

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#109 jaydan
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Loading Video...

Facts.

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#110 hardwenzen  Online
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@jaydan said:
Loading Video...

Facts.

Glad you know him. Wasn't expecting our local sheep to know the gold cock.

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#111 Maroxad
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@hardwenzen said:
@Maroxad said:
@hardwenzen said:

Jumping in the air to slow down time and spam explosives is not skill. Its a gimmick that introduces incredibly easy gameplay that even a child can master. Give that same kid Elden Ring, and they wouldn't be able to go past Margott🤷‍♂️Totk, just like botw, is a mobile adventure game, and i would prefer you compare it to other titles in its genre. Be it Genshin Impact or other titles similar to it. Hell, other than i, when was the last time you ever heard anyone even mention Zelda's combat system? Its so bland that people are completely indifferent to it, they just don't care one way or the other. On the Fromsoft side, the whole industry is copying them, and nobody is even capable of achieving what they do.

Your moaning about BG3 doesn't interest me. Its a superior game to totk, won goty last year, and is considered by many as the best rpg ever made. It is what it is.

There is a lot more at play than just slowing down time. Of course, you would have known this if you hadactually played the game.

People are uploading combat montages of TOTK all the time. The combat gets quite a bit of discussion. It is technical enough to satisfy me. And achieves the goal of the game, which is to be the definitive AAA sandbox. The combat of which is a part of that.

I guess you like your themepark games (see Elden Ring). But personally I prefer more sandboxy games like BotW and TOTK.

The core mechanic to abuse is slowing down time. No need to deny it, or play around it, everyone does it, everyone abuses it. Not much is more broken overpowered than being able to slow down time in a video game, and Zelda gives it to you without an internal cooldown😐As i've stated many times, this developer does not care if you abuse their game, and they don't want to spend resources balancing it. Come to think of it, they don't even want to invest resources into creating quality expansions, and if they release a dlc... well, we've all seen their quality in botw🤷‍♂️Fromsoft is on another level, and that's perfectly fine because Nintendo is mainly competing with mobile gaming, not pc/ps/xbox.

Slowing down time costs stamina...

At least play games before criticizing them. I see no point arguing with someone so smugnorant. Who thinks he knows games that he hasn't even played, better than those that have.

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#112 Maroxad
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@mesome713: The big problem with Meta builds in Elden Ring is how the meta is really static untill nerfs or patches are rolled out. In games with healthy metas, including breath of the wild. Metas can change as people learn more about the game. In the end ER is all about execution.

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#113 Mesome713
Member since 2019 • 7224 Posts

@hardwenzen said:
@mesome713 said:
@hardwenzen said:
@Maroxad said:
@hardwenzen said:

Jumping in the air to slow down time and spam explosives is not skill. Its a gimmick that introduces incredibly easy gameplay that even a child can master. Give that same kid Elden Ring, and they wouldn't be able to go past Margott🤷‍♂️Totk, just like botw, is a mobile adventure game, and i would prefer you compare it to other titles in its genre. Be it Genshin Impact or other titles similar to it. Hell, other than i, when was the last time you ever heard anyone even mention Zelda's combat system? Its so bland that people are completely indifferent to it, they just don't care one way or the other. On the Fromsoft side, the whole industry is copying them, and nobody is even capable of achieving what they do.

Your moaning about BG3 doesn't interest me. Its a superior game to totk, won goty last year, and is considered by many as the best rpg ever made. It is what it is.

There is a lot more at play than just slowing down time. Of course, you would have known this if you hadactually played the game.

People are uploading combat montages of TOTK all the time. The combat gets quite a bit of discussion. It is technical enough to satisfy me. And achieves the goal of the game, which is to be the definitive AAA sandbox. The combat of which is a part of that.

I guess you like your themepark games (see Elden Ring). But personally I prefer more sandboxy games like BotW and TOTK.

The core mechanic to abuse is slowing down time. No need to deny it, or play around it, everyone does it, everyone abuses it. Not much is more broken overpowered than being able to slow down time in a video game, and Zelda gives it to you without an internal cooldown😐As i've stated many times, this developer does not care if you abuse their game, and they don't want to spend resources balancing it. Come to think of it, they don't even want to invest resources into creating quality expansions, and if they release a dlc... well, we've all seen their quality in botw🤷‍♂️Fromsoft is on another level, and that's perfectly fine because Nintendo is mainly competing with mobile gaming, not pc/ps/xbox.

You have no room to take about overpowered build Mr. Elden Ring Blood build. 95% of players spend their time finding the most overpowered build in Fromsoft games cause so many are broken. Ive never played a Fromsoft game that didn't have 5-10 OP broken builds that become the most used in the game. You need to stop watching Youtube to form your opinion of games, Sony don't spoiled y'all with watching gameplay instead of playing.

They nerfed blood builds a century ago, and so was the mimmick nerfed. Ya, a developer that is at least trying to have balance while also offering an insane amount of build diversity, which makes it really difficult to have a blanced game.🤡

Fromsoft and balance are two words that just don't fit. Elden Ring is the most broken PVP game ever created. That Clown couldn't balance a game to save his life.

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#114 hardwenzen  Online
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@mesome713 said:
@hardwenzen said:
@mesome713 said:
@hardwenzen said:
@Maroxad said:

There is a lot more at play than just slowing down time. Of course, you would have known this if you hadactually played the game.

People are uploading combat montages of TOTK all the time. The combat gets quite a bit of discussion. It is technical enough to satisfy me. And achieves the goal of the game, which is to be the definitive AAA sandbox. The combat of which is a part of that.

I guess you like your themepark games (see Elden Ring). But personally I prefer more sandboxy games like BotW and TOTK.

The core mechanic to abuse is slowing down time. No need to deny it, or play around it, everyone does it, everyone abuses it. Not much is more broken overpowered than being able to slow down time in a video game, and Zelda gives it to you without an internal cooldown😐As i've stated many times, this developer does not care if you abuse their game, and they don't want to spend resources balancing it. Come to think of it, they don't even want to invest resources into creating quality expansions, and if they release a dlc... well, we've all seen their quality in botw🤷‍♂️Fromsoft is on another level, and that's perfectly fine because Nintendo is mainly competing with mobile gaming, not pc/ps/xbox.

You have no room to take about overpowered build Mr. Elden Ring Blood build. 95% of players spend their time finding the most overpowered build in Fromsoft games cause so many are broken. Ive never played a Fromsoft game that didn't have 5-10 OP broken builds that become the most used in the game. You need to stop watching Youtube to form your opinion of games, Sony don't spoiled y'all with watching gameplay instead of playing.

They nerfed blood builds a century ago, and so was the mimmick nerfed. Ya, a developer that is at least trying to have balance while also offering an insane amount of build diversity, which makes it really difficult to have a blanced game.🤡

Fromsoft and balance are two words that just don't fit. Elden Ring is the most broken PVP game ever created. That Clown couldn't balance a game to save his life.

You got destroyed within seconds, and that traumatized you to the core. Its OK mesome, you aren't dead irl.