Federal Law Enforcement cited in Portland, use unmarked vehicles to pull protesters of streets

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Stevo_the_gamer

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#101 Stevo_the_gamer  Moderator
Member since 2004 • 49584 Posts

@HoolaHoopMan said:
@Stevo_the_gamer said:

@HoolaHoopMan: I am not mixing the two but you definitely seem stuck on the usage of the word and I don't find it applicable in your reproach. Wisdom/understanding of the root cause of issues doesn't mean you need to share in the feelings of the criminal. You can understand how a serial killer had a complete lack of empathy, but not share in the thoughts/feelings he may have (or absence of such). Either way, simple to agree to disagree.

Disagreements aside, throwing rioters into unmarked vans by unknown federal officers will provide them a boost to public opinion, whether you like it or not. They are turning these assholes into the very victims you don't want them to be. Ask yourself if these actions are doing net harm or net good for your goals. If that goal is to restore order in Portland and provide a positive image of law enforcement I'd say it's a very large set back.

There's nothing Portland can do to remedy the image among its vocal extremist population, nor should local/state/federal law enforcement appease their insanity.

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KungfuKitten

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#102  Edited By KungfuKitten
Member since 2006 • 27389 Posts

@LJS9502_basic said:
@mrbojangles25 said:

Let's bring back Bush-era, domestic "black sites" so we can "disappear" these people too. I mean why half-ass it with plainclothes g-men kidnapping people when you can go all-out; there is certainly precedent for it. Yeah AMERICA! LAND OF THE FREE! WOOOO!

*Hyperbole aside, I understand why the local law enforcement would do this (they are outnumbered and while they are not outgunned, this would certainly spare them a lot of trouble), I'm not too keen on the idea of feds doing it though.

It's not local law enforcement. trump sent federal troops against the wishes of the state and city.

OK, you are right about that. And they're 'protecting federal buildings.' And now, if the feds leave like they've been told by state and city Trump can say: "We wanted to help but the people you vote for, they don't want us to. They say they have you covered." And the riots increase in intensity when the feds stop their involvement. And the people will vote accordingly.

Better yet, let's say they burn the federal courthouse, maybe even with people still inside. It's not a good look for state and city. Either way the mayor, governor, the head of police completely failed at their job. Even before the feds stepped outside. They were letting it 'die out.' 50 days. For people living in Portland I cannot imagine, it must be a nightmare that won't end.

How do you make it right? By saying that it was... necessary to get something done? A lot of the damage will be tough to defend as necessary. It won't be easy. It's a bad position.

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Drunk_PI

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#103 Drunk_PI
Member since 2014 • 3358 Posts

@Stevo_the_gamer said:
@HoolaHoopMan said:
@Stevo_the_gamer said:

@HoolaHoopMan: I am not mixing the two but you definitely seem stuck on the usage of the word and I don't find it applicable in your reproach. Wisdom/understanding of the root cause of issues doesn't mean you need to share in the feelings of the criminal. You can understand how a serial killer had a complete lack of empathy, but not share in the thoughts/feelings he may have (or absence of such). Either way, simple to agree to disagree.

Disagreements aside, throwing rioters into unmarked vans by unknown federal officers will provide them a boost to public opinion, whether you like it or not. They are turning these assholes into the very victims you don't want them to be. Ask yourself if these actions are doing net harm or net good for your goals. If that goal is to restore order in Portland and provide a positive image of law enforcement I'd say it's a very large set back.

There's nothing Portland can do to remedy the image among its vocal extremist population, nor should local/state/federal law enforcement appease their insanity.

Pretty sure law enforcement should focus on the actual extremists than people protesting on the streets.

https://theintercept.com/2020/07/15/george-floyd-protests-police-far-right-antifa/

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Chutebox

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#104 Chutebox
Member since 2007 • 50664 Posts

@drunk_pi said:
@Stevo_the_gamer said:
@HoolaHoopMan said:
@Stevo_the_gamer said:

@HoolaHoopMan: I am not mixing the two but you definitely seem stuck on the usage of the word and I don't find it applicable in your reproach. Wisdom/understanding of the root cause of issues doesn't mean you need to share in the feelings of the criminal. You can understand how a serial killer had a complete lack of empathy, but not share in the thoughts/feelings he may have (or absence of such). Either way, simple to agree to disagree.

Disagreements aside, throwing rioters into unmarked vans by unknown federal officers will provide them a boost to public opinion, whether you like it or not. They are turning these assholes into the very victims you don't want them to be. Ask yourself if these actions are doing net harm or net good for your goals. If that goal is to restore order in Portland and provide a positive image of law enforcement I'd say it's a very large set back.

There's nothing Portland can do to remedy the image among its vocal extremist population, nor should local/state/federal law enforcement appease their insanity.

Pretty sure law enforcement should focus on the actual extremists than people protesting on the streets.

https://theintercept.com/2020/07/15/george-floyd-protests-police-far-right-antifa/

Ya, no extremists in Portland. /sarcasm.

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Drunk_PI

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#105 Drunk_PI
Member since 2014 • 3358 Posts

@Chutebox said:
@drunk_pi said:
@Stevo_the_gamer said:
@HoolaHoopMan said:
@Stevo_the_gamer said:

@HoolaHoopMan: I am not mixing the two but you definitely seem stuck on the usage of the word and I don't find it applicable in your reproach. Wisdom/understanding of the root cause of issues doesn't mean you need to share in the feelings of the criminal. You can understand how a serial killer had a complete lack of empathy, but not share in the thoughts/feelings he may have (or absence of such). Either way, simple to agree to disagree.

Disagreements aside, throwing rioters into unmarked vans by unknown federal officers will provide them a boost to public opinion, whether you like it or not. They are turning these assholes into the very victims you don't want them to be. Ask yourself if these actions are doing net harm or net good for your goals. If that goal is to restore order in Portland and provide a positive image of law enforcement I'd say it's a very large set back.

There's nothing Portland can do to remedy the image among its vocal extremist population, nor should local/state/federal law enforcement appease their insanity.

Pretty sure law enforcement should focus on the actual extremists than people protesting on the streets.

https://theintercept.com/2020/07/15/george-floyd-protests-police-far-right-antifa/

Ya, no extremists in Portland. /sarcasm.

It's not the extremists they like though. ;)

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Stevo_the_gamer

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#106 Stevo_the_gamer  Moderator
Member since 2004 • 49584 Posts

@drunk_pi: They should focus on the ones being violent and destroying/vandalizing property. Peaceful protests happen all the time in Portland, but where the extremists are, the violence and shenanigans occur.

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#107 nintendoboy16
Member since 2007 • 41577 Posts

And Trump's planning to expand it to other cities, such as Chicago. F***... will this fascism ever end?

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comp_atkins

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#108 comp_atkins
Member since 2005 • 38691 Posts

@HoolaHoopMan said:
@comp_atkins said:

what agency do these security guards report to?

does a federal security guard have the authority to arrest and detain a person? under what law? what are they charged with?

It doesn't matter because they're currently going after the people we don't like. This seems to be the general rule of thumb with many here.

where are all the 2A flocking to portland to defend the populace from tyranny? isn't that their core fucking argument for needing firearms in the first place?

you get hundreds of idiots running off to nevada to defend a criminal. now? crickets.

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Pedro

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#109 Pedro
Member since 2002 • 70401 Posts

This is not a good path for the US and its made worse by people supporting it. But, as history has shown, time and time again, regret will ensue when all is concluded if this behavior is left unchecked.

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vl4d_l3nin

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#110 vl4d_l3nin
Member since 2013 • 3702 Posts

@comp_atkins: 2A are siding with protesters. Just not rioters.

Besides. We tried in portland. They have made it VERY clear they do not want 2A advocates there

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Gaming-Planet

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#112 Gaming-Planet
Member since 2008 • 21064 Posts

@vl4d_l3nin:

If you're fighting against fascism, wouldn't you want to have a gun?

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LJS9502_basic

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#113 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178873 Posts

@Gaming-Planet said:

@vl4d_l3nin:

If you're fighting against fascism, wouldn't you want to have a gun?

Guns solve nothing. They exacerbate. Americans and their guns. *sigh*

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Drunk_PI

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#114 Drunk_PI
Member since 2014 • 3358 Posts

@Gaming-Planet said:

@vl4d_l3nin:

If you're fighting against fascism, wouldn't you want to have a gun?

Statistically speaking, armed and violent revolutions aren't as successful compared to non-violent revolutions and protests. There's some good literature/articles online on the subject if you want to look into it.

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#115 mrbojangles25
Member since 2005 • 58505 Posts

@vl4d_l3nin said:

@comp_atkins: 2A are siding with protesters. Just not rioters.

Besides. We tried in portland. They have made it VERY clear they do not want 2A advocates there

Nice to see they are at least practicing good trigger discipline.

Unlike some people...

@drunk_pi said:
@Gaming-Planet said:

@vl4d_l3nin:

If you're fighting against fascism, wouldn't you want to have a gun?

Statistically speaking, armed and violent revolutions aren't as successful compared to non-violent revolutions and protests. There's some good literature/articles online on the subject if you want to look into it.

Yeah we don't need to overthrow our government--on paper, it's probably one of the greatest out there--we just need to clean house and update some old shit.

No reason for things to escalate past a few burned cars and broken windows.

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#116 vl4d_l3nin
Member since 2013 • 3702 Posts

@Gaming-Planet said:

@vl4d_l3nin:

If you're fighting against fascism, wouldn't you want to have a gun?

You would think, right? You could also try a hammer. Very proletariat

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LJS9502_basic

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#117 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178873 Posts

@vl4d_l3nin: Isn't that how the French Revolution started?

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#118 HoolaHoopMan
Member since 2009 • 14724 Posts

@Stevo_the_gamer said:
@HoolaHoopMan said:

Disagreements aside, throwing rioters into unmarked vans by unknown federal officers will provide them a boost to public opinion, whether you like it or not. They are turning these assholes into the very victims you don't want them to be. Ask yourself if these actions are doing net harm or net good for your goals. If that goal is to restore order in Portland and provide a positive image of law enforcement I'd say it's a very large set back.

There's nothing Portland can do to remedy the image among its vocal extremist population, nor should local/state/federal law enforcement appease their insanity.

I think you may have misunderstood. These 'extremist' individuals might be past the point of convincing (and I agree with you there to some extent), but public perception of the situation is going to be ever changing. By sending unmarked vans and police to round them up, people may rally behind them when they normally would not have. It's good PR, and in a sense vindication, for them to be thrown in vans and whisked away.

Look at it as two sides pitted against each other, firmly in their stances, no way to change their views (assumptions). What can help push one side over the top is public support and opinion. Where as Portland officials wouldn't have given into their demands before, they are now more incentivized to do so as outside support is thrown behind the 'extremists'.

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Xabiss

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#119 Xabiss
Member since 2012 • 4749 Posts

When protesters become rioters take them out. Bravo DHS! Funny these people brought foam shields for protection. These terrible rioters got what they deserved 100%!

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redrichard

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#120 redrichard
Member since 2015 • 203 Posts

Unitedstatesians are now realizing they are the least free country in the world.

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Stevo_the_gamer

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#121 Stevo_the_gamer  Moderator
Member since 2004 • 49584 Posts

@Xabiss: Andy always provides great material on Twitter, especially of the straight lunatics out there protesting.

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#122 Chutebox
Member since 2007 • 50664 Posts

Lol, that moron mayor in Portland decided to go with the mob in Portland. He had guards around him, got booed by the crowd, was told to quit by the same people, then got gassed for his troubles haha.

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#123 Stevo_the_gamer  Moderator
Member since 2004 • 49584 Posts

@Chutebox: Pretty poetic actually. 9/10, would watch again. Lol

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#124 vl4d_l3nin
Member since 2013 • 3702 Posts

@Chutebox said:

Lol, that moron mayor in Portland decided to go with the mob in Portland. He had guards around him, got booed by the crowd, was told to quit by the same people, then got gassed for his troubles haha.

This is like the third politician who has tried marching with the crowd and was just excoriated for it.

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KungfuKitten

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#125  Edited By KungfuKitten
Member since 2006 • 27389 Posts

@vl4d_l3nin said:
@Chutebox said:

Lol, that moron mayor in Portland decided to go with the mob in Portland. He had guards around him, got booed by the crowd, was told to quit by the same people, then got gassed for his troubles haha.

This is like the third politician who has tried marching with the crowd and was just excoriated for it.

Seen this? She's educating the press. I love that. She's so good at her job, I was giving her a standing ovation.

Loading Video...

Also pause and think about all the well willing people permanently injured by the peaceful protests. Those are monsters. And the media is complicit.

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LJS9502_basic

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#126 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178873 Posts

@KungfuKitten: Have you paid attention to the secret police bashing people and spraying their faces? Is that safety for the people? How about hitting someone in the face? Or attacking unarmed mom's merely standing there?

Don't come in here with trump's bs and act like it's true. Also we don't want secret police taking people off the streets. You like that.....China etc say hi.

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Xabiss

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#127 Xabiss
Member since 2012 • 4749 Posts

@LJS9502_basic said:

@KungfuKitten: Have you paid attention to the secret police bashing people and spraying their faces? Is that safety for the people? How about hitting someone in the face? Or attacking unarmed mom's merely standing there?

Don't come in here with trump's bs and act like it's true. Also we don't want secret police taking people off the streets. You like that.....China etc say hi.

When you riot be prepared to be dealt with. These so called protest in Portland are straight up riots. When you fight police, tear down statues, and destroy public/private property, and start fires at that point you are a rioter and need to be taken care of.

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LJS9502_basic

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#128 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178873 Posts

@Xabiss said:
@LJS9502_basic said:

@KungfuKitten: Have you paid attention to the secret police bashing people and spraying their faces? Is that safety for the people? How about hitting someone in the face? Or attacking unarmed mom's merely standing there?

Don't come in here with trump's bs and act like it's true. Also we don't want secret police taking people off the streets. You like that.....China etc say hi.

When you riot be prepared to be dealt with. These so called protest in Portland are straight up riots. When you fight police, tear down statues, and destroy public/private property, and start fires at that point you are a rioter and need to be taken care of.

They are peaceful protestors I'm talking about. Which is a Constitutional Right. Why are you Republicans only crying about your right to bear arms but are okay with eroding the rest of the Constitution? Hypocrites.

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#129 Xabiss
Member since 2012 • 4749 Posts

@LJS9502_basic said:
@Xabiss said:
@LJS9502_basic said:

@KungfuKitten: Have you paid attention to the secret police bashing people and spraying their faces? Is that safety for the people? How about hitting someone in the face? Or attacking unarmed mom's merely standing there?

Don't come in here with trump's bs and act like it's true. Also we don't want secret police taking people off the streets. You like that.....China etc say hi.

When you riot be prepared to be dealt with. These so called protest in Portland are straight up riots. When you fight police, tear down statues, and destroy public/private property, and start fires at that point you are a rioter and need to be taken care of.

They are peaceful protestors I'm talking about. Which is a Constitutional Right. Why are you Republicans only crying about your right to bear arms but are okay with eroding the rest of the Constitution? Hypocrites.

What did you not understand from what I said above. I said what is going on in Portland is riots and I have no issue with peaceful protest. So sorry not the hypocrite you are trying to claim. Its just sad that the Liberals are promoting hate right now.

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#130 Chutebox
Member since 2007 • 50664 Posts

@KungfuKitten: Daammnnn, get'm girl! Haha

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horgen

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#131 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127527 Posts

Secret police and Republicans are OK with this?

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#132 Drunk_PI
Member since 2014 • 3358 Posts

@horgen said:

Secret police and Republicans are OK with this?

Universal healthcare is bad because big gubermint is evil but militarized police, police abuses, and sending in federal troops is ok.

Republican logic continues to astound, even as the trump cultists continue to make excuses for such abuses.

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#133 horgen  Moderator
Member since 2006 • 127527 Posts

@drunk_pi said:
@horgen said:

Secret police and Republicans are OK with this?

Universal healthcare is bad because big gubermint is evil but militarized police, police abuses, and sending in federal troops is ok.

Republican logic continues to astound, even as the trump cultists continue to make excuses for such abuses.

Republican logic might, but not conservative logic. This is right up their alley.

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#134 Stevo_the_gamer  Moderator
Member since 2004 • 49584 Posts

The amount of mental gymnastics I see from not only the media, but also from the Twittersphere, on failing basic understandings of how law enforcement work and operate have been quite the hilarious rollercoaster. Some of my favorite hyperbole has been calling federal law enforcement "troops" or seeing an article complaining of federal personnel being unmarked/unidentified while showing one of the border patrol officers badge number and insignia in the headline photo. Been especially entertaining seeing the amount of Godwin showing and sensationalizing funny hyperbolic comments. The amount of salt... It's giving the dead sea a run for its money. Good thing I have a large assortment of popcorn, thanks Costco!

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#135 Xabiss
Member since 2012 • 4749 Posts

@horgen said:
@drunk_pi said:
@horgen said:

Secret police and Republicans are OK with this?

Universal healthcare is bad because big gubermint is evil but militarized police, police abuses, and sending in federal troops is ok.

Republican logic continues to astound, even as the trump cultists continue to make excuses for such abuses.

Republican logic might, but not conservative logic. This is right up their alley.

Jesus people they are clearly marked on there uniforms. I don't understand what is so secret about them. ROFLMAO! Except the make believe you all make up in your heads. These rioters are trying to burn down a federal building. The federal government has the right to protect public property. Unmarked cars is smart so the rioters can't target there vehicles.

I love how you all defend these rioters destroying public and private property.

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LJS9502_basic

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#136 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178873 Posts

@Xabiss said:
@LJS9502_basic said:

They are peaceful protestors I'm talking about. Which is a Constitutional Right. Why are you Republicans only crying about your right to bear arms but are okay with eroding the rest of the Constitution? Hypocrites.

What did you not understand from what I said above. I said what is going on in Portland is riots and I have no issue with peaceful protest. So sorry not the hypocrite you are trying to claim. Its just sad that the Liberals are promoting hate right now.

What did you not understand from what said above.

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SUD123456

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#137 SUD123456
Member since 2007 • 6965 Posts

Actual rioters are a problem. However, the large majority of the people protesting are not rioters. And there is plenty of footage of people being attacked and beaten who are not rioting. That is a problem too.

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#138 nintendoboy16
Member since 2007 • 41577 Posts

@LJS9502_basic said:

@KungfuKitten: Have you paid attention to the secret police bashing people and spraying their faces? Is that safety for the people? How about hitting someone in the face? Or attacking unarmed mom's merely standing there?

Don't come in here with trump's bs and act like it's true. Also we don't want secret police taking people off the streets. You like that.....China etc say hi.

"Uh, but that's different because..."

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#139  Edited By Vaasman
Member since 2008 • 15594 Posts

@SUD123456 said:

Actual rioters are a problem. However, the large majority of the people protesting are not rioters. And there is plenty of footage of people being attacked and beaten who are not rioting. That is a problem too.

This is something that's completely ridiculous about the argument of the right leaning folks here that "they need these federal forces because of rioting!"

Not only have they basically done nothing to stop actual rioting, they're gassing, abducting, and beating the shit out of the peaceful people who aren't doing anything illegal. You guys can't possibly argue in good faith that they were sent for property protection when they've done anything but.

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#140 Chutebox
Member since 2007 • 50664 Posts

The hell haha

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#141  Edited By KungfuKitten
Member since 2006 • 27389 Posts

@SUD123456 said:

Actual rioters are a problem. However, the large majority of the people protesting are not rioters. And there is plenty of footage of people being attacked and beaten who are not rioting. That is a problem too.

If you stand there backing the rioters when they destroy things, cheering them on. Then I'm sorry but you are wilfully part of the riot.

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#142  Edited By KungfuKitten
Member since 2006 • 27389 Posts
@nintendoboy16 said:
@LJS9502_basic said:

@KungfuKitten: Have you paid attention to the secret police bashing people and spraying their faces? Is that safety for the people? How about hitting someone in the face? Or attacking unarmed mom's merely standing there?

Don't come in here with trump's bs and act like it's true. Also we don't want secret police taking people off the streets. You like that.....China etc say hi.

"Uh, but that's different because..."

Well with China you could argue that people opposing the CCP are looking to free themselves from a rather compromising and tight grip on their life and words. Even the yellow vests have my sympathy because they are living in a financially nonviable future. Politicians ignore the rich poor divide forever and it cannot keep going that way without the system falling apart. In the USA the people rioting are the ones who'd like to do what? Restrict speech? Abolish the police?

But maybe secret police should not have that power, no matter the context. I don't know if that would hurt their ability to get things done too much.

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nintendoboy16

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#143 nintendoboy16
Member since 2007 • 41577 Posts

@KungfuKitten said:
@nintendoboy16 said:
@LJS9502_basic said:

@KungfuKitten: Have you paid attention to the secret police bashing people and spraying their faces? Is that safety for the people? How about hitting someone in the face? Or attacking unarmed mom's merely standing there?

Don't come in here with trump's bs and act like it's true. Also we don't want secret police taking people off the streets. You like that.....China etc say hi.

"Uh, but that's different because..."

Well with China you could argue that people opposing the CCP are looking to free themselves from a rather compromising and tight grip on their life and words. Even the yellow vests have my sympathy because they are living in a financially nonviable future. Politicians ignore the rich poor divide forever and it cannot keep going that way without the system falling apart. In the USA the people rioting are the ones who'd like to do what? Restrict speech? Abolish the police?

But maybe secret police should not have that power, no matter the context. I don't know if that would hurt their ability to get things done too much.

Abolish corrupt police, more like. And fight Trump's tyranny as he wipes out our democratic institutions (right now he's defunding the USPS because he buys conspiracy theories on how mail in voting causes voter fraud).

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nintendoboy16

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#144 nintendoboy16
Member since 2007 • 41577 Posts

They're in Seattle now. I sure can't wait to hear how it's fine because "Seattle is a failed city."

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LJS9502_basic

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#145 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 178873 Posts

Democracy dies because people allow it to do so. And the Republican party is cheering the death on. I'm not sure why a party is more important than a country, a government, or freedom. But there you have it.

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Chutebox

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#146 Chutebox
Member since 2007 • 50664 Posts

Man, you guys have selective vision. Quite hilarious.

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#147 Drunk_PI
Member since 2014 • 3358 Posts

@nintendoboy16 said:

They're in Seattle now. I sure can't wait to hear how it's fine because "Seattle is a failed city."

Thugs in uniforms. Nothing more. Good to see the statists on this forum out and about defending the abuse of our citizens. I'll remember that when it comes to november when the trumpettes and their sympathizers moan about big government.

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#148  Edited By Xabiss
Member since 2012 • 4749 Posts

@drunk_pi said:
@nintendoboy16 said:

They're in Seattle now. I sure can't wait to hear how it's fine because "Seattle is a failed city."

Thugs in uniforms. Nothing more. Good to see the statists on this forum out and about defending the abuse of our citizens. I'll remember that when it comes to november when the trumpettes and their sympathizers moan about big government.

Yep keep cheering on people tearing our cities apart. Sorry these people are nothing but thug rioters! Guess what if they stayed home all of this would stop!

I have a 100s more.

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#149 Chutebox
Member since 2007 • 50664 Posts

@Xabiss: They don't care. They'll keep spouting the usual nonsense and try to appeal to people's emotions and ignore what's actually happening.

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#150 Drunk_PI
Member since 2014 • 3358 Posts

@Chutebox said:

@Xabiss: They don't care. They'll keep spouting the usual nonsense and try to appeal to people's emotions and ignore what's actually happening.

Why would anyone care about fascists and their opinions?