Is 1.84 TFLOPS a lot for a GPU?

Yes!

Its more powerful than:

GeForce GTX 480 (1.34 TFLOPS)

GeForce GTX 580 (1.58 TFLOPS)

Its almost equal to:

GeForce GTX 660 (1.9 TFLOPS)

Its less powerful than:

GeForce GTX 680 (3 TFLOPS)

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src:

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/reviews/graphics-cards/362647/nvidia-geforce-gtx-580

http://www.nordichardware.com/Graphics/geforce-gtx-660-for-oems-appears-on-nvidias-website.html

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So as we can see its quite a bit more powerful than what was considered bleeding edge in 2011 and only the latest and most expensive and powerfull current GPUs gain considerable edge over it.

Noone has ever optimised a game for such powerful hardware. We have not yet seen how a game optimised for it might look. Forget Crysis 3 on ultra settings - games that the new PS4 shall bring us will wipe floor with it. Crysis 3 on ultra runs just fine on the less powerful GTX 580 afterall, and that is even further slowed down through API.

its a good GPU.  Very similiar performance off the shelf to a 7850 in terms of raw TFLOPS comparison.  Its GCN architecture based though, so more efficiency and better Compute performance than that architecture provides.

The bigger thing is 8Gb of RAM.  Its a absolutel godsend that Sony upped that from the rumored 4gb.  It will have a larger effect on PS3 games then pretty much everything else.  

I'll be intrigued to see what a highly optimised game will look like on the ps4 hardware, i was very jaded on the last gen but this announcement for the ps4 has got me very excited again.

R.I.P ps3 old friend, i'll be keeping mine but its very much time to look forward now.

TFLOPS aren't everything. As far as I know, 580 GTX is matched with a 7870, if not slightly more powerful (unless recent AMD drivers gave 7870 an edge).

I built a GTX 580 rig in 2011 with 8gb of GDDR3 RAM. Ps4 will have much better graphics than I can achieve on it (especially when the optimization really kicks in) which is awesome news :D! I think Sony has chosen smart specs. Hopefully next gen won't be as long. Five years is better imo.

TFLOPS aren't everything. As far as I know, 580 GTX is matched with a 7870, if not slightly more powerful (unless recent AMD drivers gave 7870 an edge).

Rocker6

Yeah but its the best data we have for comparison. It is to be expected that the PS4 GPU will be further optimised to provide even better results than standard PC architecture.

[QUOTE="Rocker6"]

TFLOPS aren't everything. As far as I know, 580 GTX is matched with a 7870, if not slightly more powerful (unless recent AMD drivers gave 7870 an edge).

BlbecekBobecek

Yeah but its the best data we have for comparison. It is to be expected that the PS4 GPU will be further optimised to provide even better results than standard PC architecture.

We'll see... there are differences between AMD and Nvidia architectures, and comparing only the TFLOPS, core clock, etc is a very vague comparison that isn't saying much.

That said, I do expect the PS4 to outmatch the 580 GTX, however, optimization isn't some magic that can turn a 7870 into a 690, or whatever.

I built a GTX 580 rig in 2011 with 8gb of GDDR3 RAM. Ps4 will have much better graphics than I can achieve on it (especially when the optimization really kicks in) which is awesome news :D! I think Sony has chosen smart specs. Hopefully next gen won't be as long. Five years is better imo.

Sushiglutton

DDR3 is not GDDR3.

GDDR3/GDDR4/GDDR5 type design has improved read and write modes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GDDR3http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GDDR5

"allows read and write access with minimum latency"

Considering the PS4's Architecture is not TEH CELLZ and is a lot more similar to that of PCs, I think it won't be too long until someone makes an Emulator, However i doubt there will be many exclusives this gen, This gen will be different i have a feeling. faizan_faizan

You can't compare GFLOPs/TFLOPs with different brand GPUs.

Nvidia GPUs are designed differently compared to AMD GPUs.

For example;

A GTX 480 is rated at around 1300 GFLOPs.

An AMD 5870 is rated at around 2700 GFLOPs.

According to that it must mean the 5870 is more than two times the power of a GTX 480.

Contrary to that the GTX 480 is quite a bit more powerful than a 5870.

So you see why using GLOPs/TFLOPs for comparisons in performance it not accurate especially when comparing completely different gpu designs.

 

Yeah but its the best data we have for comparison. It is to be expected that the PS4 GPU will be further optimised to provide even better results than standard PC architecture.

BlbecekBobecek

Optimization won't help it.

Most of the API overhead on PC is from the CPU not the GPU.

So GPU performance from console to PC with similar GPU specs will be pretty much equal.

Those are the double precision specs.

the gtx 580 is 3.71 TFlops single precision.

You can't compare GFLOPs/TFLOPs with different brand GPUs.

Nvidia GPUs are designed differently compared to AMD GPUs.

For example;

A GTX 480 is rated at around 1300 GFLOPs.

An AMD 5870 is rated at around 2700 GFLOPs.

According to that it must mean the 5870 is more than two times the power of a GTX 480.

Contrary to that the GTX 480 is quite a bit more powerful than a 5870.

So you see why using GLOPs/TFLOPs for comparisons in performance it not accurate especially when comparing completely different gpu designs.

RyviusARC

Double precision vs single precision.

I built a GTX 580 rig in 2011 with 8gb of GDDR3 RAM. Ps4 will have much better graphics than I can achieve on it (especially when the optimization really kicks in) which is awesome news :D! I think Sony has chosen smart specs. Hopefully next gen won't be as long. Five years is better imo.

Sushiglutton

The GTX 580 is more powerful (especially when OCed) and no optimization will change that for consoles.

Optimization has more of an effect on the CPU when compared with the overhead from API on PC.

The only edge the console will have over your 2011 PC is RAM which is more for textures and not performance.

You can't compare GFLOPs/TFLOPs with different brand GPUs.

Nvidia GPUs are designed differently compared to AMD GPUs.

For example;

A GTX 480 is rated at around 1300 GFLOPs.

An AMD 5870 is rated at around 2700 GFLOPs.

According to that it must mean the 5870 is more than two times the power of a GTX 480.

Contrary to that the GTX 480 is quite a bit more powerful than a 5870.

So you see why using GLOPs/TFLOPs for comparisons in performance it not accurate especially when comparing completely different gpu designs.

[QUOTE="RyviusARC"]

You can't compare GFLOPs/TFLOPs with different brand GPUs.

Nvidia GPUs are designed differently compared to AMD GPUs.

For example;

A GTX 480 is rated at around 1300 GFLOPs.

An AMD 5870 is rated at around 2700 GFLOPs.

According to that it must mean the 5870 is more than two times the power of a GTX 480.

Contrary to that the GTX 480 is quite a bit more powerful than a 5870.

So you see why using GLOPs/TFLOPs for comparisons in performance it not accurate especially when comparing completely different gpu designs.

Double precision vs single precision.

All I know about hardware is:
If you don't know somethingsomething, something doesn't say much.

 

Double precision vs single precision.

topgunmv

I think both of the stats were with single precision but if not my point still stands.

Double precision for 5870 is 544 GFLOPs

If the 1344 GFLOPs reading for the GTX 480 was Double precision (not sure) then that would mean it is almost 3x the power of a 5870 and we know that is no where near true.

Flops don't mean sh*t to me, how did all those flops turn out last gen?

I don't know, but it runs Agni's Philosophy tech demo which on PC was running on 680, so that is good for the PS4.

If you were building a gaming rig in 2011 it would have been decent. Anyway in a console it's good considering price, power and size limitations for a console that can be marketable.

[QUOTE="topgunmv"]

Double precision vs single precision.

I think both of the stats were with single precision but if not my point still stands.

Double precision for 5870 is 544 GFLOPs

If the 1344 GFLOPs reading for the GTX 480 was Double precision (not sure) then that would mean it is almost 3x the power of a 5870 and we know that is no where near true.

Don't compare Nvidia to AMD on this, especially since we know it's AMD in the PS4.

1.76 = 7850 likely ~= to the 1.84 confirmed.

Those are the double precision specs.

the gtx 580 is 3.71 TFlops single precision.

topgunmv

GTX 580 has 1581 GFLOPs (SP FP, FMA).

AMD also rates thier FLOPs via FMA.

Don't compare Nvidia to AMD on this, especially since we know it's AMD in the PS4.

1.76 = 7850 likely ~= to the 1.84 confirmed.

Inconsistancy

I find GFLOP readings even with similar gpus to be faulty to getting accurate performance specs.

It's a theoretical limit that is never reached in real world performance.

If the specs are true then the GTX 580 is still more powerful than the PS4's GPU.

The GTX 480 is closer to it's performance.

Also remember PC GPUs can be OCed heavily for quite a performance boost.

PS4 can't do that because it has to worry about power consumption and temperature.

Congratz cows you have just got a high end 2010 PC with a good amount of RAM.

[QUOTE="Inconsistancy"]

Don't compare Nvidia to AMD on this, especially since we know it's AMD in the PS4.

1.76 = 7850 likely ~= to the 1.84 confirmed.

I find GFLOP readings even with similar gpus to be faulty to getting accurate performance specs.

It's a theoretical limit that is never reached in real world performance.

If the specs are true then the GTX 580 is still more powerful than the PS4's GPU.

The GTX 480 is closer to it's performance.

Also remember PC GPUs can be OCed heavily for quite a performance boost.

PS4 can't do that because it has to worry about power consumption and temperature.

Congratz cows you have just got a high end 2010 PC with a good amount of RAM.

 

Congratz cows you have just got a high end 2010 PC with a good amount of RAM.

RyviusARC

It depends on the workload e.g.4GB textures would gimp 580. ronvalencia

Well yah but I doubt consoles will dedicate 4gb to vRAM.

And there are 3GB vRAM versions of the GTX 580 if I remember correctly.

Most likely the PS4 will dedicate more RAM to system memory.

A PC equivalent of probably like 5GB of RAM to system memory and 2GB of RAM to video memory.

The extra 1GB would be used for certain purposes like the OS and other functions.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"] It depends on the workload e.g.4GB textures would gimp 580. RyviusARC

Well yah but I doubt consoles will dedicate 4gb to vRAM.

And there are 3GB vRAM versions of the GTX 580 if I remember correctly.

Most likely the PS4 will dedicate more RAM to system memory.

A PC equivalent of probably like 5GB of RAM to system memory and 2GB of RAM to video memory.

The extra 1GB would be used for certain purposes like the OS and other functions.

You are trying to bash it too hard, seriously. Even PC with windows running tons of stuff in the background is content with like 4 GBs of DDR3 RAM (which has only fraction of PS4's RAM bandwith) to run current games, so why in the world would a dedicated gaming machine need 5 GBs of GDDR5 RAM for system memory? :lol:

Its only your assumption that is not only way off, but the fact you are making such stupid assumption also shows how much you want to bash PS4 at all costs. JUST STOP.

 

You are trying to bash it too hard, seriously. Even PC with windows running tons of stuff in the background is content with like 4 GBs of DDR3 RAM (which has only fraction of PS4's RAM bandwith) to run current games, so why in the world would a dedicated gaming machine need 5 GBs of GDDR5 RAM for system memory? :lol:

Its only your assumption that is not only way off, but the fact you are making such stupid assumption also shows how much you want to bash PS4 at all costs. JUST STOP.

BlbecekBobecek

The reason PCs don't need much system memory is because the games are still designed around the limitations of current consoles.

When next gen consoles arrive that will change.

I remember in the gen before that when I could run most games on 512mbs of system memory.

Then this gen we have some games using over 2GBs of system memory.

I can easily get Skyrim to use over 3GBs of system memory.

I don't want to bash the PS4.

It's shaping up to be a great console and is only a little bit weaker than a 7970m which was the laptop my friend bought last year that was a little over 1000USD (althought that has a screen built in).

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"] It depends on the workload e.g.4GB textures would gimp 580. RyviusARC

Well yah but I doubt consoles will dedicate 4gb to vRAM.

And there are 3GB vRAM versions of the GTX 580 if I remember correctly.

Most likely the PS4 will dedicate more RAM to system memory.

A PC equivalent of probably like 5GB of RAM to system memory and 2GB of RAM to video memory.

The extra 1GB would be used for certain purposes like the OS and other functions.

PS4 has 8 GB GDDR5 memory which is useful for very large textures in-flight. There's are reasons for why high-end pro GPU cards has large amount of VRAM.

Some of 7970s already includes 6 GB of GDDR5 memory. The next logical progression would be 8 GB GDDR5 per GPU.

For the CPU, fast GDDR5 reduces the need for large-on-chip caches.

Anyway, there's GDDR6 for 2014 i.e. my Radeon HD 7950 would be almost 2 years old.

all i know is it's better than what is currently in the juggernaut PS3. That's good enough for me. Thank you Sony.Heil68

Yah it's a monster compared to the PS3.

I am happy they went all out and also added more RAM.

Now PC won't be held back as much.

Can't wait for the Maxwell series of Nvidia GPUs next year.

I am predicting another 8800GTX.

PS4 has 8 GB GDDR5 memory which is useful for very large textures in-flight. There's are reasons for why high-end pro GPU cards has large amount of VRAM. Some of 7970s already includes 6 GB of GDDR5 memory. For the CPU, fast GDDR5 reduces the need for large-on-chip caches. Anyway, there's GDDR6 for 2014 i.e. my Radeon HD 7950 would be almost 2 years old. ronvalencia

But as levels becomes larger and more complex there be a higher need for system memory.

They have to balance that out and find a happy medium.

TFLOPS aren't everything. As far as I know, 580 GTX is matched with a 7870, if not slightly more powerful (unless recent AMD drivers gave 7870 an edge).

Rocker6

all i know is it's better than what is currently in the juggernaut PS3. That's good enough for me. Thank you Sony.Heil68

This, i dont really care whats inside the box aslong as it plays games much improved from what is already a great console.

[QUOTE="Heil68"]all i know is it's better than what is currently in the juggernaut PS3. That's good enough for me. Thank you Sony.RyviusARC

Yah it's a monster compared to the PS3.

I am happy they went all out and also added more RAM.

Now PC won't be held back as much.

Can't wait for the Maxwell series of Nvidia GPUs next year.

I am predicting another 8800GTX.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"] PS4 has 8 GB GDDR5 memory which is useful for very large textures in-flight. There's are reasons for why high-end pro GPU cards has large amount of VRAM. Some of 7970s already includes 6 GB of GDDR5 memory. For the CPU, fast GDDR5 reduces the need for large-on-chip caches. Anyway, there's GDDR6 for 2014 i.e. my Radeon HD 7950 would be almost 2 years old. RyviusARC

But as levels becomes larger and more complex there be a higher need for system memory.

They have to balance that out and find a happy medium.

With HSA and unified memory, there would be zero copy between CPU and GPU i.e. both CPU and GPU would be working on the the same data at the same memory location.

PS4's APU design would be recycled after AMD Kaveri APU (8 CU) i.e. 16 CU PC APU with Streamroller.

all i know is it's better than what is currently in the juggernaut PS3. That's good enough for me. Thank you Sony.Heil68

Yah it's a monster compared to the PS3.

I am happy they went all out and also added more RAM.

Now PC won't be held back as much.

Can't wait for the Maxwell series of Nvidia GPUs next year.

I am predicting another 8800GTX.

its a good GPU.  Very similiar performance off the shelf to a 7850 in terms of raw TFLOPS comparison.  Its GCN architecture based though, so more efficiency and better Compute performance than that architecture provides.

 

The bigger thing is 8Gb of RAM.  Its a absolutel godsend that Sony upped that from the rumored 4gb.  It will have a larger effect on PS3 games then pretty much everything else.  

Cali3350

[QUOTE="Inconsistancy"]

Don't compare Nvidia to AMD on this, especially since we know it's AMD in the PS4.

1.76 = 7850 likely ~= to the 1.84 confirmed.

RyviusARC

I find GFLOP readings even with similar gpus to be faulty to getting accurate performance specs.

It's a theoretical limit that is never reached in real world performance.

If the specs are true then the GTX 580 is still more powerful than the PS4's GPU.

The GTX 480 is closer to it's performance.

Also remember PC GPUs can be OCed heavily for quite a performance boost.

PS4 can't do that because it has to worry about power consumption and temperature.

Congratz cows you have just got a high end 2010 PC with a good amount of RAM.

W-What, what is with this post?

Is there some gene that you have active (extra chromosome?) that forces you to compare it to an orange? I just said keep it AMD vs AMD, it's the most logical comparison. And it may be important to note that this whole generation is targeting AMD hardware for performance, no one's going Nvidia for consoles.

And what about this overclocking, how is that relevant at all?

1.84 GFLOPS is quite a bit, and similar to the middle-high range of available Radeon PC graphics cards, while the top end GHz Edition 7970 is capable of 4 TFLOPS single precision.  Honestly it was more than I expected of Sony, and with all the non-DX optimizations that can be made with AMD's GCN graphics architecture, we should see the PS4 be competitive graphically with the 7970 and AMDs next gen highest end card to a fair degree.

Killzone Shadowfall looked pretty damn good, considering everything that was happening.  The lighting, sheer polygon count, and cleanliness of the image was what struck me the most, though I wouldn't consider it any better than Crysis 3, but the PS4's graphics will get better with time.  I may get one, but I probably won't, as I'm a PC guy myself.  But being a PC guy, I'm hoping that much of the headway made with the PS4's "supercharged PC architecture" trickles back into the PC space with multiplatform games.  What I've been hearing about GCN makes me wonder about the idea of MS starting completely clean with a new DX or had AMD not wasted any transistors on non-DX11 & non-DirectCompute capability.

Yah it's a monster compared to the PS3.

I am happy they went all out and also added more RAM.

Now PC won't be held back as much.

Can't wait for the Maxwell series of Nvidia GPUs next year.

I am predicting another 8800GTX.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="adamosmaki"] The funny think is by going by the naming of Amd's Gpu's its Amd that is gonna come up with a new 8800 card . Imagine if they release an 8800gt faizan_faizan

1.84 TFLOPS and 8GB of RAM is a great amount of power & memory to put in a console. The GPUs are also very powerful in the PS4.