I just don't get all the GW2 love.

[QUOTE="Ravenshout"]

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"] ...what ideas? seriously, as far as i know, "it exists" is all we have on it yet.BrunoBRS

I am not saying GW2 is a bad game, because it's a damn good game. It' just that Titan, according to some speculations, will be revolutionary. It will be truly next-gen MMO.

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"][QUOTE="Ravenshout"] It'll be more different from that dated 8-year old game A.K.A WoW than Guild Wars 2 is.

I am not saying GW2 is a bad game, because it's a damn good game. It' just that Titan, according to some speculations, will be revolutionary. It will be truly next-gen MMO.

Ravenshout

Not exactly the most credible source. Chances are, he is proud of his work.

Even then, I am sure most Bethesda employees (ex or not) felt the same way regarding going from Morrowind to Oblivion.

After being let down by blizzard 4 times in a row with WotLK, SC2 (granted, I heard this has improved a lot since launch), Cata and Diablo 3, I honestly dont have much faith left in blizzard.

Blizzard can say whatever they want, I wont be hyped until they SHOW us Titan.

[QUOTE="Ravenshout"]

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"] speculations based on what? looking at blizzard's history, they're not very good at "revolutionizing". they make great games, but never revolutionary games. also lol "based on my speculations, the next GW2 expansion will kill console gaming with its revolutionary 'pay gamers per hour and still profit' system"Maroxad

Not exactly the most credible source. Chances are, he is proud of his work.

Even then, I am sure most Bethesda employees (ex or not) felt the same way regarding going from Morrowind to Oblivion.

After being let down by blizzard 4 times in a row with WotLK, SC2 (granted, I heard this has improved a lot since launch), Cata and Diablo 3, I honestly dont have much faith left in blizzard.

Blizzard can say whatever they want, I wont be hyped until they SHOW us Titan.

The thing is, in all those 3 games, Blizzard stuck with what established, sometimes tired formulas.

Titan, however, is different. Not only will it be more polished than any newly-launched MMO ever, but it will also give us the much-needed revolution in MMO, which sadly GW2 didn't manage.

So, do you agree if we start a Titan thread here?

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

[QUOTE="Ravenshout"] This time around, according to an ex-developer at Blizzard, will be like going from Burton's Batman to Nolan's Batman.

Ravenshout

Not exactly the most credible source. Chances are, he is proud of his work.

Even then, I am sure most Bethesda employees (ex or not) felt the same way regarding going from Morrowind to Oblivion.

After being let down by blizzard 4 times in a row with WotLK, SC2 (granted, I heard this has improved a lot since launch), Cata and Diablo 3, I honestly dont have much faith left in blizzard.

Blizzard can say whatever they want, I wont be hyped until they SHOW us Titan.

The thing is, in all those 3 games, Blizzard stuck with what established, sometimes tired formulas.

Titan, however, is different. Not only will it be more polished than any newly-launched MMO ever, but it will also give us the much-needed revolution in MMO, which sadly GW2 didn't manage.

So, do you agree if we start a Titan thread here?

titan is a steampunk MMO ive seen the concept art (or the supposed concept art leak). it doesnt look very impressive atm. also starcraft II only became balanced in PvP after they simply started taking out units wholesale from the lineup rather than attempt to retool them ot adjsut their stats.

blizzards approach to 'fixing" starcraft II has been slash and burn. and they were going to do it again at HoTS launch until folks raged at the demise of the protoss carrier.

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

[QUOTE="Ravenshout"] This time around, according to an ex-developer at Blizzard, will be like going from Burton's Batman to Nolan's Batman.

Ravenshout

Not exactly the most credible source. Chances are, he is proud of his work.

Even then, I am sure most Bethesda employees (ex or not) felt the same way regarding going from Morrowind to Oblivion.

After being let down by blizzard 4 times in a row with WotLK, SC2 (granted, I heard this has improved a lot since launch), Cata and Diablo 3, I honestly dont have much faith left in blizzard.

Blizzard can say whatever they want, I wont be hyped until they SHOW us Titan.

The thing is, in all those 3 games, Blizzard stuck with what established, sometimes tired formulas.

Titan, however, is different. Not only will it be more polished than any newly-launched MMO ever, but it will also give us the much-needed revolution in MMO, which sadly GW2 didn't manage.

So, do you agree if we start a Titan thread here?

WoW has done so much more than any other MMO? Please elaborate then. Because literally EVERYTHING that WoW did at release and later, had already been done before. As for Titan, haven't they already confirmed that it's going to be aimed towards a 'wider audience'? Even more casual than WoW then. What we need for this so called revolution is not some theme-park with a few gimmicks (GW2), but an accesible (in the good sense, accesible=/=casual) sandbox that's not a total borefest like EvE.

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

[QUOTE="Ravenshout"] This time around, according to an ex-developer at Blizzard, will be like going from Burton's Batman to Nolan's Batman.

Ravenshout

Not exactly the most credible source. Chances are, he is proud of his work.

Even then, I am sure most Bethesda employees (ex or not) felt the same way regarding going from Morrowind to Oblivion.

After being let down by blizzard 4 times in a row with WotLK, SC2 (granted, I heard this has improved a lot since launch), Cata and Diablo 3, I honestly dont have much faith left in blizzard.

Blizzard can say whatever they want, I wont be hyped until they SHOW us Titan.

The thing is, in all those 3 games, Blizzard stuck with what established, sometimes tired formulas.

Titan, however, is different. Not only will it be more polished than any newly-launched MMO ever, but it will also give us the much-needed revolution in MMO, which sadly GW2 didn't manage.

So, do you agree if we start a Titan thread here?

D3 is improving, I will give you that. But I think the general consensus is that the game was poor. The repetitive combat, poor customization and itemization so laughably bad that there are shooters with better loot systems.

As for WoW, yes it WAS a good game during its vanilla and TBC era, but the only innovative thing about it was its execution. It basicly took a load of concepts from other mmos and refined them. But as good as it was in its Vanilla and TBC days, Cataclysm and Wrath of the Lich king were horrible.

Also, Guild Wars 2, while not particulary innovative, did what WoW did back in 2004. Took a lot of concepts and mashed them together, although, it didnt do it quite as flawlessly as WoW did. However, the ideas were great and had their effects on other mmos.

You are making a lot of assumptions with Titan, you are only setting yourself up for disappointment.

titan is a steampunk MMO ive seen the concept art (or the supposed concept art leak). it doesnt look very impressive atm. ionusX

[QUOTE="ionusX"]titan is a steampunk MMO ive seen the concept art (or the supposed concept art leak). it doesnt look very impressive atm. TruedUp

you demand to see what i saw aight.. run your mouth more..kk

http://kotaku.com/project-titan/

u mad?

i can't believe people are discussing something so weak and baseless as rumors and incredibly broad statements ("oh it will be really, really good!") on a game that hasn't had even a screenshot, or a theme, mentioned. the most tangible thing is a possibly fake concept art leak of a charriot-car thing.BrunoBRS

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"]i can't believe people are discussing something so weak and baseless as rumors and incredibly broad statements ("oh it will be really, really good!") on a game that hasn't had even a screenshot, or a theme, mentioned. the most tangible thing is a possibly fake concept art leak of a charriot-car thing.TruedUp

Because he is a blind fanboy?

i can't believe people are discussing something so weak and baseless as rumors and incredibly broad statements ("oh it will be really, really good!") on a game that hasn't had even a screenshot, or a theme, mentioned. the most tangible thing is a possibly fake concept art leak of a charriot-car thing.BrunoBRS

[QUOTE="-Unreal-"]

Oh almost forgot. vfibsux, let me know why you go into WoW topics when you "hate" the game.

JohnF111

[QUOTE="TruedUp"][QUOTE="ionusX"]titan is a steampunk MMO ive seen the concept art (or the supposed concept art leak). it doesnt look very impressive atm. ionusX

you demand to see what i saw aight.. run your mouth more..kk

http://kotaku.com/project-titan/

u mad?

You're right. Based on that concept art Titan sucks big time!! I hate it.

[QUOTE="Ravenshout"]

[QUOTE="Maroxad"]

Not exactly the most credible source. Chances are, he is proud of his work.

Even then, I am sure most Bethesda employees (ex or not) felt the same way regarding going from Morrowind to Oblivion.

After being let down by blizzard 4 times in a row with WotLK, SC2 (granted, I heard this has improved a lot since launch), Cata and Diablo 3, I honestly dont have much faith left in blizzard.

Blizzard can say whatever they want, I wont be hyped until they SHOW us Titan.

QQabitmoar

The thing is, in all those 3 games, Blizzard stuck with what established, sometimes tired formulas.

Titan, however, is different. Not only will it be more polished than any newly-launched MMO ever, but it will also give us the much-needed revolution in MMO, which sadly GW2 didn't manage.

So, do you agree if we start a Titan thread here?

WoW has done so much more than any other MMO? Please elaborate then. Because literally EVERYTHING that WoW did at release and later, had already been done before. As for Titan, haven't they already confirmed that it's going to be aimed towards a 'wider audience'? Even more casual than WoW then. What we need for this so called revolution is not some theme-park with a few gimmicks (GW2), but an accesible (in the good sense, accesible=/=casual) sandbox that's not a total borefest like EvE.

Off the top of my dome, things I've not seen in other MMOs before Blizzard did them:

minor:

• Bonus rested XP
• Massive amount of quests
• Quest based levelling
• Flying mounts
• Transitional phases of zones dependant on quest progression

Major:

• Great zone transition
• Battlegrounds
• Cross realm Battlegrounds
• Cross realm dungeons
• Cross realm zones
• Competitive arena system for PvP
• Competitive Battleground system for PvP
• Highly customizable interface (not limited to just the HUD but functions of the player interface too)
• Highly polished, fluid controls with a high degree of customizability
• High accessability for newbies whilst still maintaining headroom for the more hardcore players in both PvE as well as PvP

You can say "hey I remember something like that in X game or Y game" in relation to many features of many games accross many genres dating back decades. Some of the things in MMOs today (or rather most of them) have likely been done in some form or another in a game years and years past. Game design by nature tends to be an incorporation of previous ideas and successful implimentations into the next. There's rarely a definitive and notable revolutionary part of a game which someone can't say "yes but X game did something like that back in nineteen canteen".

What they did best and why the game is such a massive success can't be summed up in just a short sentence. There's multiple reasons from the fluid and responsive combat to the excellent class system and all the memorable spells the classes have which makes each class distinctive, to the Alliance versus Horde setting, to the fantastic environments in each and every expansion, to the little pieces of charm the game has in things like items, icons, models and sound design, to the amount of story there is in the game through tens of thousands of quests and many pieces of readable texts found scattered around the game, to the enjoyable boss fights, to the sense of discovery when seeing all the memorable landmarks all over the world. The dungeons and raids are done much better than other MMOs too that it's not even close.

[QUOTE="QQabitmoar"]

[QUOTE="Ravenshout"] Diablo 3 wasn't that bad and IS IMPROVING. Starcraft 2 is so refined and well-balanced now. WoW has done so much more than any MMO and being almost a decade old, it makes sense that the game's getting terribly outdated.

The thing is, in all those 3 games, Blizzard stuck with what established, sometimes tired formulas.

Titan, however, is different. Not only will it be more polished than any newly-launched MMO ever, but it will also give us the much-needed revolution in MMO, which sadly GW2 didn't manage.

So, do you agree if we start a Titan thread here?

-Unreal-

WoW has done so much more than any other MMO? Please elaborate then. Because literally EVERYTHING that WoW did at release and later, had already been done before. As for Titan, haven't they already confirmed that it's going to be aimed towards a 'wider audience'? Even more casual than WoW then. What we need for this so called revolution is not some theme-park with a few gimmicks (GW2), but an accesible (in the good sense, accesible=/=casual) sandbox that's not a total borefest like EvE.

Off the top of my dome, things I've not seen in other MMOs before Blizzard did them:

minor:

• Bonus rested XP
• Massive amount of quests
• Quest based levelling
• Flying mounts
• Transitional phases of zones dependant on quest progression

Major:

• Great zone transition
• Battlegrounds
• Cross realm Battlegrounds
• Cross realm dungeons
• Cross realm zones
• Competitive arena system for PvP
• Competitive Battleground system for PvP
• Highly customizable interface (not limited to just the HUD but functions of the player interface too)
• Highly polished, fluid controls with a high degree of customizability
• High accessability for newbies whilst still maintaining headroom for the more hardcore players in both PvE as well as PvP

You can say "hey I remember something like that in X game or Y game" in relation to many features of many games accross many genres dating back decades. Some of the things in MMOs today (or rather most of them) have likely been done in some form or another in a game years and years past. Game design by nature tends to be an incorporation of previous ideas and successful implimentations into the next. There's rarely a definitive and notable revolutionary part of a game which someone can't say "yes but X game did something like that back in nineteen canteen".

What they did best and why the game is such a massive success can't be summed up in just a short sentence. There's multiple reasons from the fluid and responsive combat to the excellent class system and all the memorable spells the classes have which makes each class distinctive, to the Alliance versus Horde setting, to the fantastic environments in each and every expansion, to the little pieces of charm the game has in things like items, icons, models and sound design, to the amount of story there is in the game through tens of thousands of quests and many pieces of readable texts found scattered around the game, to the enjoyable boss fights, to the sense of discovery when seeing all the memorable landmarks all over the world. The dungeons and raids are done much better than other MMOs too that it's not even close.

I can't forgive WoW for popularising theme-parks, so I'm very biased against it, but basically, you just admitted WoW didn't do anything really original, it was just the usual Blizzard polish and attention to detail and the Warcraft name, with features and concepts already seen elsewhere, albeit much more accesible (accesible in the 'casualised' sense).

And in all honesty, if WoW wasn't based around instances and had player made factions instead of Alliance/Horde, I would have worshipped it. But then, it would be tougher to give a sense of security to the casuals and protect them from pk and clan wars.

There is nothing wrong with theme park mmos, the death of sandbox is due to that narrow minded sub set of no lifing human beings that believe to enjoy a game you have to grind away as a second life to inhabit this sandbox realm where you can murder and grief to your hearts content. Ultima Online ect, all follow this tragic formular. It is the eltist subset that wants the genre this way that has killed the sandbox. the closest thing you will find to sandbox now is stuff like planet side, minecraft, war z .... light elements in a persistant world. Nobody wants to die and lose all their stuff. that took them 100s of hours to grind. Until someone makes sandbox work without only appealing to these people, it will remain dead, that is not WoW's fault. That being said, theme parks have reached their limit. even Guild Wars.... the last amazing theme park on the horizon fell short in quite a few areas.MBirdy88

• Whether there is something wrong or not with themeparks is entirely subjective. But in my opinion, there is a LOT wrong with themeparks. Whether it is the boring gameplay, which relies too much on scripted boss fights, content that gets cleared way too fast resulting in droughts, gearing up and getting stronger for the sake of gearing up and getting stronger, lack of freedom, ect.
• Sandboxes are not dead, they are niche, but hardly dead.
• You do realize that most good sandbox mmos have safe zones where players are either unattackable or if they do get attacked the law enforcement will quickly come nad kill them. So if players want to be safe from those horribe PKs, they can just stay in thet safe zones. Granted, the best rewards are obtained outside these safe zones.
• Items dont take 100s of hours to grind in a sandbox mmo. Unless it is really powerful stuff like titan ships. And those items are supposed to be a guild effort.
• Full loot systems and FFA is good for the economy. You do realize there is a reason crafting skills are almost never useless in a sandbox mmo whereas in themeparks, the only professions worth a damn are those that craft consumables.
• The biggest bane for a sandbox mmo is when they "carebear"ize it, and make the game more themeparky.

The biggest tragedy in an mmo is how you spend weeks and weeks farming gear, only to have it all obsolete in the next patch. Spending hours upon hours getting item A so you can get item B so you can get item C so you can get item D is truly the most tragic thing in the mmo genre.

But really, I think the biggest problem with most themeparks is the lack of depth, with the illusion of depth trying to cover it up. I'm sorry, but picking obvious pick me talents, and repeating a rotation until the bosses' hp bar drops to 0%, while paying attention to QTErr boss mechanics isnt what call depth.

[QUOTE="vfibsux"][QUOTE="-Unreal-"]

If you're so concerned about people "trolling the hell" out of topics, why have I never seen you dawn your white armour and jump on your steed and ride into a WoW thread and take the other side?

-Unreal-

Oh almost forgot. vfibsux, let me know why you go into WoW topics when you "hate" the game.

-Unreal-

Discussion closed.

Why? Personal attacks.