Is 1.84 TFLOPS a lot for a GPU?

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"][QUOTE="tormentos"] The PS4 has a companion chip for recording,so no performance hit is suffer,that is one of the reason of my efficiency claims. The PS4 also has a ARM for OS,which mean no CPU core touch either or at worst case scenario incredible minimal impact. I know it will not make the GPU more powerful i never say that,it will allow how ever the GPU to work to its fullest.Tessellation

 ''There was also talk of a new processing module in the PS4 hardware designed to handle tasks like background downloading. Our sources suggest a low-power ARM core designed to handle "standby" tasks along these lines, while the console also saves the current gameplay state when the system is closed down, meaning instant access to the last game you played when you power up again. OS tasks and resource allocation remain unknown (512MB or thereabouts was discussed with developers) but we now have some idea of what this system can do: Sony talks about running a web browser "and other applications" during gameplay.''

I believe that still needs RAM.

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"]And your getting this info from where? because it looks like wishful dreaming, since recording is very demanding processing ,on hdd and memory usage. You can not have a perfect system without no hiccups tormentos

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"]And your getting this info from where? because it looks like wishful dreaming, since recording is very demanding processing ,on hdd and memory usage. You can not have a perfect system without no hiccups tormentos

a low power ARM core does not translate into flawless real time recording , since recording is very demanding with processing ,on hdd and memory usage. You can not have a perfect system without no hiccups

[QUOTE="RyviusARC"]

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"] And your getting this info from where? because it looks like wishful dreaming04dcarraher

 ''There was also talk of a new processing module in the PS4 hardware designed to handle tasks like background downloading. Our sources suggest a low-power ARM core designed to handle "standby" tasks along these lines, while the console also saves the current gameplay state when the system is closed down, meaning instant access to the last game you played when you power up again. OS tasks and resource allocation remain unknown (512MB or thereabouts was discussed with developers) but we now have some idea of what this system can do: Sony talks about running a web browser "and other applications" during gameplay.''

I believe that still needs RAM.

[QUOTE="Tessellation"]

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"] And your getting this info from where? because it looks like wishful dreaming04dcarraher

 ''There was also talk of a new processing module in the PS4 hardware designed to handle tasks like background downloading. Our sources suggest a low-power ARM core designed to handle "standby" tasks along these lines, while the console also saves the current gameplay state when the system is closed down, meaning instant access to the last game you played when you power up again. OS tasks and resource allocation remain unknown (512MB or thereabouts was discussed with developers) but we now have some idea of what this system can do: Sony talks about running a web browser "and other applications" during gameplay.''

I believe that still needs RAM.

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"][QUOTE="Tessellation"]

 ''There was also talk of a new processing module in the PS4 hardware designed to handle tasks like background downloading. Our sources suggest a low-power ARM core designed to handle "standby" tasks along these lines, while the console also saves the current gameplay state when the system is closed down, meaning instant access to the last game you played when you power up again. OS tasks and resource allocation remain unknown (512MB or thereabouts was discussed with developers) but we now have some idea of what this system can do: Sony talks about running a web browser "and other applications" during gameplay.''

I believe that still needs RAM.

clyde46

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"][QUOTE="RyviusARC"]

 ''There was also talk of a new processing module in the PS4 hardware designed to handle tasks like background downloading. Our sources suggest a low-power ARM core designed to handle "standby" tasks along these lines, while the console also saves the current gameplay state when the system is closed down, meaning instant access to the last game you played when you power up again. OS tasks and resource allocation remain unknown (512MB or thereabouts was discussed with developers) but we now have some idea of what this system can do: Sony talks about running a web browser "and other applications" during gameplay.''

I believe that still needs RAM.

savagetwinkie

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"][QUOTE="clyde46"] That LIVE Gamer HD stuff works pretty well. If you can encode on a dedicated chip it takes the load off the CPU. clyde46

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"][QUOTE="clyde46"] Not really, if you are encoding on the fly you can get some very respectable file sizes. It doesn't that much in the RAM either.clyde46

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"]And your getting this info from where? because it looks like wishful dreaming, since recording is very demanding processing ,on hdd and memory usage. You can not have a perfect system without no hiccups tormentos

AMD GCN includes hardware encoder like Intel's QuickSync.

[QUOTE="Rocker6"]

TFLOPS aren't everything. As far as I know, 580 GTX is matched with a 7870, if not slightly more powerful (unless recent AMD drivers gave 7870 an edge).

BlbecekBobecek

Yeah but its the best data we have for comparison. It is to be expected that the PS4 GPU will be further optimised to provide even better results than standard PC architecture.

LOL wut

no

PC > PS4, simple.

And your getting this info from where? because it looks like wishful dreaming04dcarraher

 ''There was also talk of a new processing module in the PS4 hardware designed to handle tasks like background downloading. Our sources suggest a low-power ARM core designed to handle "standby" tasks along these lines, while the console also saves the current gameplay state when the system is closed down, meaning instant access to the last game you played when you power up again. OS tasks and resource allocation remain unknown (512MB or thereabouts was discussed with developers) but we now have some idea of what this system can do: Sony talks about running a web browser "and other applications" during gameplay.''

I believe that still needs RAM.

 ''There was also talk of a new processing module in the PS4 hardware designed to handle tasks like background downloading. Our sources suggest a low-power ARM core designed to handle "standby" tasks along these lines, while the console also saves the current gameplay state when the system is closed down, meaning instant access to the last game you played when you power up again. OS tasks and resource allocation remain unknown (512MB or thereabouts was discussed with developers) but we now have some idea of what this system can do: Sony talks about running a web browser "and other applications" during gameplay.''

I believe that still needs RAM.

 ''There was also talk of a new processing module in the PS4 hardware designed to handle tasks like background downloading. Our sources suggest a low-power ARM core designed to handle "standby" tasks along these lines, while the console also saves the current gameplay state when the system is closed down, meaning instant access to the last game you played when you power up again. OS tasks and resource allocation remain unknown (512MB or thereabouts was discussed with developers) but we now have some idea of what this system can do: Sony talks about running a web browser "and other applications" during gameplay.''

I believe that still needs RAM.

PS4's GPU sounds fine to me. No, it isn't as good as top of the line desktop GPUs but considering the outrageous cost of those that was never really possible. It is comparable to highend laptop GPUs though and that's what it's based on after all. To me the real question is is 1.2 tflops enough for Durango? My answer is no. That spec disappoints me.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="04dcarraher"] I see where he got his info but the fact they state standby tasks and a low power ARM core does not translate into flawless real time recording , since recording is very demanding with processing ,on hdd and memory usage. You can not have a perfect system without no hiccupsTessellation

While AMD GCN includes it's own hardware video encoder, you have several low power ARM based solutions in the market place.

For example, Video Codecs on ARM ISA (Cortex A5/A7/A9/A15/A8) by Ittiam Systems. http://www.arm.com/community/partners/display_product/rw/ProductId/3951/

Decoders H.264/AVC Baseline Profile
H.264/AVC Main Profile
H.264/AVC High Profile
MPEG4 Simple Profile
MPEG4 Advanced Simple Profile (ASP) DivX, Xvid
MPEG2 Main Profile
VC-1/WMV9 Simple Profile
VC-1/WMV9 Main Profile
H.263
Sorenson Spark v0 & v1
Encoders H.264/AVC Baseline Profile
MPEG4 Simple Profile

ARM can support X86's little endian modes i.e. no problems with exchanging data with host X86 CPU.

Due to ARM's Trusted Zone/DRM IP, AMD Jaguar based APU could include a quad-core ARM Cortex A5.

AMD HSA streamlines the driver stack and ARM supports AMD's HSA.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="04dcarraher"] I see where he got his info but the fact they state standby tasks and a low power ARM core does not translate into flawless real time recording , since recording is very demanding with processing ,on hdd and memory usage. You can not have a perfect system without no hiccups04dcarraher

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"][QUOTE="savagetwinkie"] it will effect the system while your gameing yes, but probably not that much. Your silly to think that increasing the buffer space will actually improve performance... it won't. Eventually you'll reach a point where you have to dump the pictures to the hard disk as fast as you receive them. So its better to do it as soon as you get the picture and only buffering when the game requests IO from the disk. Consoles aren't like desktops, they are much simpler and have tighter control over the IO bus, and probably have more tricks like a way to DMA the frame buffer directly to a encode chip, and the system likely wouldn't even know its recording apart from the higher disk usage. Also you're mixing up two different things, they specifically said they have a hardware encoder for the video stream. This is an entirely different beast from the ARM chip that allegedly is running the OS but I have yet to see anything that actually confirms that.savagetwinkie

[QUOTE="RyviusARC"]

 

But the PS4 doesn't have the API overhead like PC does and the overhead is experienced on the CPU side.

 

BlbecekBobecek

How is Direct3D API experienced on  CPU side? Do you have any source to prove that?

 

If you have a high end 2010 PC with a higher clocked i5 CPU and an well oced GTX 480 (3gb version would be better) then you are set to play next gen console multiplats.

 

 

RyviusARC

I seriously doubt that. High end 2006 PC is not set to play this (last) gen console multiplats afterall...

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Still mad that the 8800GTX (that is older than the ps3) play multiplats with much better graphics and performance than ps3?

Gotta love dem herms making idiotic assumptions in a desperate attempt to make PS4 look bad. :roll:

"It will most likely be 4-5GB for system RAM and 2-3GB for video RAM while 1GB is dedicated to the OS and other features." :lol:

"I doubt its just the ARM doing all the work." :lol:

"We will see." (implied: "The reality might look good but we have just presented several stupid ungrounded assumptions that might make it look a bit worse.") :lol:

--------------

Dont worry, little herms. During the first year or so PS4 games might have graphical edge over their PC counterparts, but high end PCs will match and overcome it quickly so you will once again be able to brag about getting ports with a slightly sharper textures.

I remember days when PC gaming was the real thing while consoles had mostly streamlined simplistic games that couldnt touch real PC masterpieces like UFO Enemy Unknown, Gothic, Wizardry VII, System Shock, Planescape Torment or Fallout. Those days are long gone though and you herms bragging about your console ports having higher resolution are just sad.

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"][QUOTE="tormentos"] Again there is a damn 8 core CPU than can do physics... But even so 2 CU alone for physic or animation to help the CPU on the compute site will jolt that performance to more than 300Gflops for compute,just 2 CU and you still have 16 like the 7850 and higher efficiency,lower latency and lower overhead...savagetwinkie

Compare AMD's "HSA Bolt" to CPU.

Gotta love dem herms making idiotic assumptions in a desperate attempt to make PS4 look bad. :roll:

"It will most likely be 4-5GB for system RAM and 2-3GB for video RAM while 1GB is dedicated to the OS and other features." :lol:

"I doubt its just the ARM doing all the work." :lol:

"We will see." (implied: "The reality might look good but we have just presented several stupid ungrounded assumptions that might make it look a bit worse.") :lol:

--------------

Dont worry, little herms. During the first year or so PS4 games might have graphical edge over their PC counterparts, but high end PCs will match and overcome it quickly so you will once again be able to brag about getting ports with a slightly sharper textures.

 

I remember days when PC gaming was the real thing while consoles had mostly streamlined simplistic games that couldnt touch real PC masterpieces like UFO Enemy Unknown, Gothic, Wizardry VII, System Shock, Planescape Torment or Fallout. Those days are long gone though and you herms bragging about your console ports having higher resolution are just sad.

BlbecekBobecek

Still mad that ps4 will be comparable with a low end gameing pc?

[QUOTE="faizan_faizan"]

PS4's Memory Bandwith = 176GB/s
GTX 670 = 192 GB/s
http://www.geforce.com/whats-new/articles/introducing-the-geforce-gtx-670-gpu

Inconsistancy

Note that AMD FirePro W8000's (256bit wide bus with Tahiti GCN) ~= AMD Radeon HD 7950 i.e. AMD could have released a Geforce GTX 680 type product with Tahiti XT/XT2 GCN and cut the power consumption.

384 bit wide bus can effectively support the larger 64bit DP compute elements.

Gotta love dem herms making idiotic assumptions in a desperate attempt to make PS4 look bad. :roll:

"It will most likely be 4-5GB for system RAM and 2-3GB for video RAM while 1GB is dedicated to the OS and other features." :lol:

"I doubt its just the ARM doing all the work." :lol:

"We will see." (implied: "The reality might look good but we have just presented several stupid ungrounded assumptions that might make it look a bit worse.") :lol:

--------------

Dont worry, little herms. During the first year or so PS4 games might have graphical edge over their PC counterparts, but high end PCs will match and overcome it quickly so you will once again be able to brag about getting ports with a slightly sharper textures.

 

I remember days when PC gaming was the real thing while consoles had mostly streamlined simplistic games that couldnt touch real PC masterpieces like UFO Enemy Unknown, Gothic, Wizardry VII, System Shock, Planescape Torment or Fallout. Those days are long gone though and you herms bragging about your console ports having higher resolution are just sad.

BlbecekBobecek

Here's the problem , Your looking at an low powered ARM core that has to record encode and store this data without affecting the game or system performance I doubt its just the ARM doing all the work. Unless they are going to record and encode low resolution videos or its going to affect performance. Now the main problem is the harddrive and storage because writing the data will affect the system while gaming04dcarraher

Its an AMD chip so to get a rough estimate of how it compares to an Nvidia chip take 1.8/2 so no its not even close to a gtx 580 or anything else u listed.

painguy1

GTX580 wasn't able to beat 7850 on Dirt Showdown.

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"]Here's the problem , Your looking at an low powered ARM core that has to record encode and store this data without affecting the game or system performance I doubt its just the ARM doing all the work. Unless they are going to record and encode low resolution videos or its going to affect performance. Now the main problem is the harddrive and storage because writing the data will affect the system while gamingtormentos

Gotta love dem herms making idiotic assumptions in a desperate attempt to make PS4 look bad. :roll:

"It will most likely be 4-5GB for system RAM and 2-3GB for video RAM while 1GB is dedicated to the OS and other features." :lol:

"I doubt its just the ARM doing all the work." :lol:

"We will see." (implied: "The reality might look good but we have just presented several stupid ungrounded assumptions that might make it look a bit worse.") :lol:

--------------

Dont worry, little herms. During the first year or so PS4 games might have graphical edge over their PC counterparts, but high end PCs will match and overcome it quickly so you will once again be able to brag about getting ports with a slightly sharper textures.

I remember days when PC gaming was the real thing while consoles had mostly streamlined simplistic games that couldnt touch real PC masterpieces like UFO Enemy Unknown, Gothic, Wizardry VII, System Shock, Planescape Torment or Fallout. Those days are long gone though and you herms bragging about your console ports having higher resolution are just sad.

[QUOTE="tormentos"][QUOTE="04dcarraher"]Here's the problem , Your looking at an low powered ARM core that has to record encode and store this data without affecting the game or system performance I doubt its just the ARM doing all the work. Unless they are going to record and encode low resolution videos or its going to affect performance. Now the main problem is the harddrive and storage because writing the data will affect the system while gamingMBirdy88

Let me know when consoles get MOBAs and MMORPGs and then tell me the gap is closed. Meanwhile COW, enjoy your comic book hero 10 hour sandbox and your 5 hour mediocre movie shooter. I and the 300k at peak and still GROWING in a BETA game will continue to play good TRUE gameplay games. Consoles can't handle DoTA 2. BUT LOL KILLZONE AND INFAMOUS oh you must be so proud. Free game offers alot more than 2 expensive console pushing failures.MBirdy88

Nice try, but Im a DotA player since about 2004 and I even played it competetively with my team in local tournaments during 2005-2007. Been there before Beastmaster actually. But that certainly doesnt prevent me to enjoy excellent games like MGS4, Uncharted2, Demons Souls or Valkyria Chronicles because lets face it - the amount of money put into such games is way over PC games budgets and the singleplayer experience of such games is unmatched on PC.

Thats why herms raving about the fact that their ports of console games run in higher resolution seem pretty ridiculous to me.

 DoTA 2 runs on AMD A4 APUs.ronvalencia

Thats right. I run DotA 2 maxed out in 1080p on my laptop (core i7, GeForce 555m GT with 2GBs of VRAM, 6GBs of system RAM), and the new PS4 shall be WAY more powerful than that.

[QUOTE="04dcarraher"]Here's the problem , Your looking at an low powered ARM core that has to record encode and store this data without affecting the game or system performance I doubt its just the ARM doing all the work. Unless they are going to record and encode low resolution videos or its going to affect performance. Now the main problem is the harddrive and storage because writing the data will affect the system while gamingtormentos

Encoding part can be handled H264 hardware, but the non-encoding sections can be handled by the quad-core ARM Cortex A5 (e.g. similar to Intel Pro network processor off-load + firewall/router/mini-P2P client/mini-FTP/mini-linux smart network box).

AMD Jaguar based APUs comes with an unknown ARM Cortex A5.

O yes taking Sony's word thats a new one... their consoles never do what they promise. I highly doubt that killzone video was done on PS4.... it was done on a dev kit.

a low power ARM core does not translate into flawless real time recording , since recording is very demanding with processing ,on hdd and memory usage. You can not have a perfect system without no hiccups

04dcarraher

So it comes down to this you are a buthurt hermit and since you were owned changed your argument to sony never delivers...

[QUOTE="savagetwinkie"][QUOTE="04dcarraher"] You can not get away from the resources needed to record live video while gaming. Unless they dedicate more memory and keep on memory without using the hdd then writing onto the hdd afterward your going to run into performance issues.04dcarraher

http://www.pcper.com/news/Processors/AMD-Licenses-ARM-Technology-AMD-Leans-ARM-Security

Are you stupid? when we refer to the limitations we are talking long term, not damn fluffed up conference tech demo's tested to perform well. And please stfu, if its hardware related recording, combined with the damn camera and new controller expect a pretty damn expensive console.... stop lying through your ass. There is only one reason epic suggest 8GB and thats because of those limitations. You dont need 4GB for a damn modern game, my god I can mod the hell out of skyrim with super high res textures and fill the screen with people and it still goes nowhere near close to 4GB. Crysis 3 doesn't either on max settings and to get that effect through cry engine editor is still nearly impossible, the CPU and GPU will ALWAYS bottleneck first. 8GB RAM will give some system functionality flexibility, but as far as games go it will do nothing long term.MBirdy88

No you are the stupid and on a serial denial,so sony fake the Killlzone 4 demostration.?Wait why now show a super CG like they did on 2005.?

You are a moron has sony say the camera will be always on like Kinect.? Have they say it has a huge hit perfomance,did they even demo something with the camera that pointed that.? So you chose to believe something that wasn't show and that exist only on your small and buthurt mind,and ignore and debunk something that was demo in real damn time..

Epic did not suggest sony 8GB you moron,in fact Epic did not even knew sony had 8GB on their hardware,the unreal engine demo was done on old dev kits(8GB ones hasn't hit) and Mark Rein was quite surprise when he found out about the whole 8GB of GDDR5 and cheered the move,another one who seems really happy about the choices sony took is long time PS3 hater John Carmak..

So maybe they know something you don't.

[QUOTE="ronvalencia"][QUOTE="04dcarraher"] I see where he got his info but the fact they state standby tasks and a low power ARM core does not translate into flawless real time recording , since recording is very demanding with processing ,on hdd and memory usage. You can not have a perfect system without no hiccupsTessellation

Here is what i get from Hermits..

They can't admit that sony did some very good choices when it comes to the PS4,putting extra hardware so that the CPU and GPU would take as little hit in performance as possible,that is call thinking outside the box,and i can't believe how mad hermits are about it,to the point where the argument is not about the PS4 can accomplish by been way more efficient in many parts than PC,the argument has been shift to sony fake and sony doesn't deliver on their consoles..

[QUOTE="MBirdy88"]Are you stupid? when we refer to the limitations we are talking long term, not damn fluffed up conference tech demo's tested to perform well. And please stfu, if its hardware related recording, combined with the damn camera and new controller expect a pretty damn expensive console.... stop lying through your ass. There is only one reason epic suggest 8GB and thats because of those limitations. You dont need 4GB for a damn modern game, my god I can mod the hell out of skyrim with super high res textures and fill the screen with people and it still goes nowhere near close to 4GB. Crysis 3 doesn't either on max settings and to get that effect through cry engine editor is still nearly impossible, the CPU and GPU will ALWAYS bottleneck first. 8GB RAM will give some system functionality flexibility, but as far as games go it will do nothing long term.tormentos

No you are the stupid and on a serial denial,so sony fake the Killlzone 4 demostration.?Wait why now show a super CG like they did on 2005.?

You are a moron has sony say the camera will be always on like Kinect.? Have they say it has a huge hit perfomance,did they even demo something with the camera that pointed that.? So you chose to believe something that wasn't show and that exist only on your small and buthurt mind,and ignore and debunk something that was demo in real damn time..

Epic did not suggest sony 8GB you moron,in fact Epic did not even knew sony had 8GB on their hardware,the unreal engine demo was done on old dev kits(8GB ones hasn't hit) and Mark Rein was quite surprise when he found out about the whole 8GB of GDDR5 and cheered the move,another one who seems really happy about the choices sony took is long time PS3 hater John Carmak..

So maybe they know something you don't.

It seems Crytek asked for 8GB and they got it. http://www.computerandvideogames.com/383271/crytek-ceo-drops-possible-hint-at-8gb-of-ram-in-next-gen-consoles/

It depends if AMD's built-in ARM Cortex A5 can manage GCN's video encoder or Microsoft licenses another H264 hardware encoder with an ARM CPU.ronvalencia

I think they do as well which is a very good choice for seving resources.

It seems Crytek asked for 8GB and they got it. http://www.computerandvideogames.com/383271/crytek-ceo-drops-possible-hint-at-8gb-of-ram-in-next-gen-consoles/

ronvalencia

Here is what i get from Hermits..

They can't admit that sony did some very good choices when it comes to the PS4,putting extra hardware so that the CPU and GPU would take as little hit in performance as possible,that is call thinking outside the box,and i can't believe how mad hermits are about it,to the point where the argument is not about the PS4 can accomplish by been way more efficient in many parts than PC,the argument has been shift to sony fake and sony doesn't deliver on their consoles..

tormentos

Not from the red Hermits i.e. PS4's improvements may get recycled for future AMD PC APUs e.g. after Kaveri's 8 CUs, what's next? Let's recycle the work we done for Sony or MS and modify it for late 2014 PC APU. Thanks for Sony or MS for paying for the R&D.

Since some ultrabooks has surface mounted DDR3, GDDR5 for main memory might boost AMD based APU gaming ultrabooks/laptops.